Why a Healthy Relationship Can Feel More Unsettling Than a Chaotic One — S3E7 with Talia Koren, Dating Intentionally

About This Episode

In Season 3 episode seven of And Just Like That… We Found Therapy, host Isabel MV is joined by entrepreneur, author and host of the Dating Intentionally podcast Talia Koren to unpack Sex and the City's "Drama Queens." It's the episode where Carrie keeps waking up at 3am because nothing is wrong and that feels wrong, Charlotte pulls a book called Marriage Incorporated out of her handbag at brunch, Miranda wonders if what she has with Steve is intimacy or a rut, Samantha gets addicted to Viagra, and Charlotte falls off a kerb and lands in front of Trey MacDougall.

What We Cover

• Why a peaceful, safe relationship can feel more destabilising than a dramatic, chaotic one — and what that says about your nervous system

• The difference between settling and something that is actually healthy

• Charlotte's Marriage Incorporated strategy: is treating dating like a job search genius or a recipe for disappointment?

• Why your relationship is not there to entertain you — and whose responsibility excitement actually is

• The avoidant's spiral: how to catch yourself pulling away and ask the right question instead of making up stories

• Can you be fully present in a new relationship if you still have a visceral reaction to seeing your ex?

• Dating after a breakup: should you heal first, or does casual dating help you move forward?

• The bad first pancake theory — and why the first person you date post-breakup might not be meant to stick

• Carrie imposing herself on Aidan's parents dinner: grand romantic gesture or drama she manufactured herself?

• What dating intentionally actually means — and why it requires aligning your actions with what you want, not just your feelings

• Miranda and the skid marks: why you don't have to do his laundry, and also why intimacy ebbs and flows in long-term relationships

• Talia's numbers from 100 dates: the conversion rate from first to second to third dates, and what she learned

About Our Guest

Talia Koren is an entrepreneur, author and host of the Dating Intentionally podcast — a show about how to make your dating life feel more like Sex and the City and less like a job interview. Find her at @dating.intentionally on Instagram and listen wherever you get your podcasts. All links in the show notes.

Transcript

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to And Just Like That We Found Therapy. I am your host, Isabel MV, and today we are getting into season 3, episode 7, Drama Queens.

This is the one where Carrie cannot sleep, not because anything's wrong, but because nothing is wrong. I am joined today by Talia Koren, entrepreneur, author, and host of the Dating Intentionally podcast, which you should definitely check out.

Today we try to answer the question, do we actually need drama to make a relationship feel real?

We also get into why a healthy relationship can feel more unsettling than a chaotic one, how to tell the difference between settling and something that is actually safe, and whether your relationship is even supposed to be exciting in the first

place. Talia has a lot of thoughts, I also have a lot of thoughts, and Charlotte pulls a book called Marriage Incorporated out of her handbag at brunch, so there is plenty to discuss. Let's get into it. I love y'all.

Bye! Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode of And Just Like That We Found Therapy. I am your host, Isabel Mve, and I am super excited to be joined today by Talia Koren.

Welcome, Talia. How are you?

I'm so excited to be here as well. This is so exciting.

Thank you. Talia is an entrepreneur and author and host of the podcast, Dating Intentionally. She actually went on 100 dates and I listened to her podcast religiously, so I don't know how to go 100 dates.

But I am very happy to have her today to discuss Season 3, Episode 7, Drama Queens.

The episode opens with Carrie sleeping in bed with Aiden, and she keeps waking up with a start like, because something's off. And she's just like, okay, what is it?

She keeps checking for like missed appointments, missed deadlines, bills she hadn't settled. And she can't really figure it out what it is. And like clockwork every day, like at two or three in the morning, she keeps waking up when it finally clicks.

The only thing that's off is that she's finally in a healthy relationship where she doesn't need to fight for the relationship anymore. So, my first question to you is, what do you think makes Carrie like this?

And do you think we generally feel unsettled the first time we are in a stable and safe relationship?

Yes, I think that is actually really normal. And what Carrie is experiencing in this episode is very normal for someone who's never been in a secure relationship where they're just, there's not a lot of friction and tension and drama.

So I really related to her in this moment. What about you?

I mean, I think I was thinking about this because I was listening to another podcast this week where somebody said, like, when you finally find your securely attached man, maybe you don't have the fireworks. And I felt so betrayed.

So I understand that maybe it isn't in settling to finally be in like a loving, committed relationship where you don't have to second guess every interaction.

But I wanted to ask you, how do you differentiate between settling and something that is actually healthy?

Okay, great question. So something that is actually healthy, like the relationship we truly, most of us probably want is a relationship that brings us peace, right? We feel like we can be ourselves.

We feel like we can be safe around them. We are at home with them. That's a word people usually use to describe what they are looking for.

I want them to feel like home. Well, if your home has historically felt unsafe and full of tension, you are walking on eggshells around your family, nothing is really predictable.

You don't know who is going to fly off the handle or what is going to happen. When you do actually reach a peaceful relationship, it's going to feel weird. It's going to feel like very unfamiliar.

Like you are on a different planet emotionally. Like you are like, wait, I don't have to be vigilant and watch for signs that the person I'm with is, there's something wrong and I have to guess what it is. Like that can feel very jarring.

And when it comes to settling, settling is when you are, you're aware you're in something that you don't want to be in and you stay anyway. That's settling.

What a peaceful relationship is that you actually have the space in your life to focus on other things outside the relationship. The relationship shouldn't take over your entire life. That's not the point.

I love that.

Okay, so the girls are at brunch talking about precisely this. And it is at this point that Charlotte kind of pulls out this book from her handbag that is called Marriage Incorporated. How to Apply a Successful Business Strategy to Finding a Husband.

I am dying to know what you think about me. But what do you think about this book?

And like, what do you think about Charlotte's takeaway that is like, girls, if you don't see enough of me in the future, it's because I will be hanging out with my married friends because the book says that it's dysfunctional to hang out with.

I think she says that you're dysfunctional single friends. So she's basically going to hang out with a bunch of married people as a way to finding her husband. Dying to know.

OK, I have so many thoughts on this.

One, this is another way that Sex and the City was just ahead of its time, because this is a... I don't remember what year this aired.

2001 or 2002.

Yeah, OK. But the dating strategy, date the way you look for a job, that kind of vibe is something we see today. I don't really think it was that popular back then, but I was like, I don't know, 10 years old, so I don't know what I earned.

So I think that was just such a ahead of its time moment. Or if you weren't any women, we're actually being like, well, I got this successful career, I'm going to approach dating the same way. But I really noticed that.

And I think that that is a normal way to approach dating, but it does kind of backfire. We can't approach dating the same way we approach our careers, because it's a completely different ball game. There's just so much more outside of our control.

With our jobs, you get the degrees, you can get interviews, you can just kind of do the interview process, you can get your job. Dating is like that, it's way messier. So that was just my observation there.

And with Charlotte's whole like, I'm going to hang out with my married friends to meet their single friends. I think that was actually something I wrote down. I wish more people did that today.

I think that it is kind of on people who are coupled up to help their single friends out. And actually think who is, like, how can I help them? How can I introduce them?

How can I use my network and introduce people? So I do like that strategy.

Okay, interesting, because sometimes I feel like most of my friends who are married, almost all of them have children. And whenever I see them, it's like, please, can you come over? Because, like, the children will be running wild.

So it always feels like I'm sacrificing a day in the out and the wild when I go see my coupled friends. But good to know.

Well, the modern day version of this, you don't have to hang out with them to get this set up.

You just have to ask for it.

You can just text them.

Phone it in. Yeah, exactly.

In the next scene, Carrie and Aiden are walking down the street. And this comes to the point when you ask me, like, what do I think about Carrie feeling so unsettled because she's in a healthy relationship?

I have been in these shoes where you basically wait, you're looking for the other shoe to drop, and you kind of have to question everything and kind of like you want to speed it up.

It's like, this is too good, it's going to be over, I'd rather know how it ends. So she's just asking Aiden, like, why are you still single? How come you're not married?

Why do you always say the same thing or the right thing? What is a way that you can maybe self-regulate when your mind spirals into this kind of mindset of like, this is going to end?

Yeah, like, there's something wrong that I'm just not seeing or will come later. I mean, that is a story, that's fiction, that's future focus, and you don't know how it's going to play out until it actually plays out. I like to focus on the facts.

So when I'm spiraling, it's like, what do I actually know? What is real? What, like, do I know for sure about who I'm dating?

Instead of making up all these stories of like, well, what if he has someone in his DMs? You know, or like, yeah, actually, he's married. And I just, you know, could that happen?

Yes. But only like worry about that if you have real reasons to not trust that person, like factual, like actual things that have happened, not just stories in your mind. So learning how to differentiate, I think is the biggest key there.

Okay.

And I want to take it one step further, cause I think I've sometimes stepped into that kind of Carrie of being like, but why are you still single? And what if I did this? Would you still love me?

And da da da da. Do you think that if the man in question says, you know what, you're crazy or you're too needy, I'm out of here, it's a sign that he was not meant for you? Or do you think that we can really get in our own way of finding happiness?

Oh, I mean, both.

It could be either one, but I do think we can self-sabotage. If you are, let's just say you were dating someone, Isabel, and they're constantly like, what's wrong with you? What's wrong with you?

Why are you so perfect? Why are you single? That's going to wear on you.

You're going to be like, I can't even, I can't win. And yeah, so you could self-sabotage if your person doesn't trust you, that's going to be a turnoff to you eventually.

Yeah.

So, or they could just be like, I'm too needy. I'm out.

Yes. Seen it from your perspective that you just explained to me. Yeah, that's a total turnoff.

But basically, Aidan offers on a silver platter meeting his parents and Carrie kind of like takes that into her brain and she's like, okay, cool. Yeah, let me think about it.

At the same time, Charlotte is doing her thing of, you know, pursuing what she said she was going to do. So she is set up a meeting with one of her couple friends.

And she asks Dennis, she's like, okay, do you know, do you have any single friends at all that could be a great match for me? I would love to be set up. This is the year that I'm going to get married.

And they're like, yeah, cool. And this Dennis guy is like, I'm not sure, not really. And his wife is like, no, what about Bill?

And then Charlotte is just like, oh, Bill, Bill, Bill, Bill. Tell you what, I have tickets to the opera on Saturday and I would love to take Bill. It's a date.

And then she's just goes off with this fairy tale in her mind that Bill is going to be her end all be all. And she leaves it as that.

But my question to you here was, do you then think that indeed a better way to meet people might be through fix ups of your friends and couple friends rather than dating apps maybe at this stage?

I don't think one is better than the other. I think if I was single today, I'd be using every single tool available to me at the same time to meet people. You don't have to use apps every day.

You can hit up your friends. You can say, I want to have a gathering. Bring two single people from work.

You can do that and you can go to an event.

Do it all.

Do it all.

Yeah, I like that because I'm very against dating apps. But I only think because I get into one mode with dating apps where I'm like, okay, I'm going on an interview and I need to get the job.

Whereas I think that if you get your date sourced from different things, you're kind of more used to it and it stops being or feeling so performative.

That is, yeah, that's my stance of like, the more you can just use it as one of many tools to meet people, the less down you'll get about how annoying they are to use. They're not your only option.

Can I ask you because I know about your personal journey that you went on a hundred dates in a year?

I went on 64 first dates and turned into over 150 dates with those 64 people.

Oh, wow. That's a good hit ratio though.

I mean, a lot. So I have all the numbers because I tracked everything. I took the Charlotte approach, if you will.

I tracked everything. I think of the 64, only 30 turned to second dates and 17 turned to third dates. So that's like the conversion.

Yeah.

Okay. Do you think that you got a lot better as you got dates in your belt?

Yeah.

Did you hate it at the beginning?

It's like anything else. It's like anything, like working out or any other skill.

You just, if you keep those reps going, you will get better at it, which is why I also encourage people to just get the reps in, just go on the date, even if you're not, you don't think it's going to work out.

Just sometimes just go, just get like, yeah, I date, you know, kind of proves to yourself that you are doing it.

Yeah. Did you ever get burned out at the beginning or were you just like, No. I took breaks.

Like I took breaks, you know, if I had, I had one like kind of messy, like bad ending of a short term thing that I took a break for a month after that.

But no, I didn't get burned out because I was enjoying myself. Anything you can, any way you can make it fun for yourself, you're going to be able to make it more sustainable. But to anyone listening who's dating, do not do what I did.

You don't need to go on 61st dates. Okay, you, a lot of those dates could have been phone calls. And some of those phone calls could have been emails.

You know what I mean? Like I didn't have to be, I didn't have to meet everyone. But I was, my philosophy was more like, just get to the date as quickly as possible, meet them in person and assess them in person, rather than all the texting.

Yeah, what are maybe your top three pieces of advice to keep dating fun, especially if you feel like some people out there are getting burnt out?

So I really felt like I was in Sex and the City when I was dating.

I really felt like I was the bachelorette. Like I kind of had this, like I had a lot of guys, you know, I was texting with them.

So my big, one of my biggest piece of advice is stop, especially for women who are dating men, is stop waiting for everyone to come to you. There's a whole world of dating out there.

If you just get over this whole patriarchal, like the men should come to me, like get over that. It's 2026, we're not doing that anymore. Like go find the men that you want to date and be proactive about it.

If you just sit there waiting for your Prince Charming, it's just like, you're going to be so frustrated. So that's my biggest piece of advice.

Okay, no, I like that. I'm going to burn that in my head.

But back to the episode, Carrie and Miranda are walking down the street and they're discussing how I think Miranda is talking about the fact that she does love the intimacy and kind of like the how natural it feels to be with Steve.

And then Carrie talks about the fact that Aidan has offered up to meet his parents and she says, Aidan is being exactly how I want Mr. Big to be and I am behaving just like Mr. Big about it.

So my question to you here is, do you think she's too attached to the idea that love has to be earned or do you think she's just not that into him?

That more the first one. I think she is into him. I think Carrie, even though she is toxic, recognizes that Aidan's a good guy.

Like he is just, he has his life together. He treats her really well. He's fun to be around.

What more could you want?

Yeah.

You know? Like I think she recognizes that, but I think she is maybe not ready in this moment to step up and actually lean into it.

And she's, for whatever, her pattern is more like, let's fixate on all the problems and cause all this drama and dysregulation because that's what she's used to. And it feels weird without it.

Also sidebar, this was the scene that I hated Carrie's outfit. She's wearing this like flowery dress and like a belt. I just was like, no, this is too, I don't like it at all.

Can I tell you, when I re-watched this like an hour ago, I was like, should I go vintage shopping for like a belt like this?

No, I hate it. It's ugly enough.

Yeah.

The thing is that it is ugly in a way that I'm like, it's iconic. Would I see it and be like, I need it? No, but like, I cannot unsee it.

It's all I see in this scene. But after Carrie has this conversation with Miranda, she's with Aiden at his shop, and the whole scene is very kind of like uncomfortable to watch.

You can tell that Carrie is not comfortable with the idea that he is so available to her. And she's just been super evasive. And what's the avoidant towards him?

Because she's like, I'm not going to stay for dinner because I have a deadline. And like, listen, I was thinking, like, your parents hear me meeting them. I don't know what if I meet them and then we're not together.

And like, she's just getting ahead of herself. And she's like, it's not that big a deal. They're here.

You can meet them. I'm not like whatever you want. And then Carrie is just like, you're just so available to me.

Like, maybe you'll go do your thing with your parents. I'll do my own thing and then we'll miss each other and we'll cherish our time together a bit more. And Aiden's like, all right, cool.

You know what? I've got a life, but like Roger that. I'll go do my thing.

And I was just making room for you in my life, but like, gotcha. Yeah.

I wish in that moment, sorry, one thing I wish like Carrie, like she doesn't have an ounce of self-reflection in this moment. It's like she like Aiden is just listening to her. Like she's creating all this space.

And I wish she would have just paused and been like, why do I feel the need to create all this space? What am I actually running from here? What am I avoiding?

Because if you're dating and you feel yourself pulling back, like I had avoidant tendencies, right? So I would have to break those patterns. I had to be like, what am I actually running from?

And an avoidant who is less self-aware would be like, they're wrong. Like, here's all the reasons why I shouldn't be dating them because they're wrong fit for me.

But a more self-aware avoidant would be like, oh, I'm running away from intimacy because I'm scared of it. And I need to get over myself.

Yeah. It's interesting because seeing this, I saw Carrie really feeling uncomfortable. And she was like, whatever this is, I'm not ready to sit down and see what it is.

Yeah.

But like I need to make it stop, which I understand.

But in the same scene, I saw Aiden be so gracious. And the minute that Carrie turned around, you could see that he was super frustrated, but he kept it together.

Yeah. I was like, yeah, he's just giving her space. And like, that's what a secure person would do.

It's like, oh, you're there. Like the drama would have been like him chasing her, pulling her, please, no, Carrie, like, I need you to like, you know, just something would mean something like she, and she would pull away more, right?

That would be that, that dynamic. But he was like, okay, cool. And then she was like, wait, you're not freaking out at me?

Like, this isn't going to break us? Like, no.

Yeah. Which is something that I had to unlearn. I always kind of chase people that got mad at me.

I was like, no, this can't end here. Like, we need to fix it right now. And it took me so many years to understand that not everybody has the same process.

Because this has happened to me also kind of like with my best friends with whom I was roommates. And I was like, nah, we cannot go to bed angry. So I agree.

I think you sometimes have to take a beat, reflect on it, not take it personally. But parallelly, Charlotte is relentlessly chasing Dennis for Bill. And she's calling him at his office, at home.

He does not answer. And she was like, you know what, whatever. I'm taking somebody else to the opera and that's Bill's loss because for whatever reason he decided I was not good enough for me or for him.

Something like that.

So Charlotte takes Carrie to the opera. And Carrie has this, are they monocles? What are they?

Like binoculars.

Yeah, like little binocular things.

Yeah. For the opera. And she is, instead of looking at the stage, looking at everyone in the audience.

And she sees Mr. Big with Natasha, freaks out, doesn't say a peep about it to Charlotte and says, I'm so sorry. I'm actually feeling not well.

I got to run. And she leaves running. So, I'm very curious to know, because this is something that I think about often.

Do you think that we can be fully present in a new relationship if we still have that kind of reaction towards an ex?

Which ties in with the chicken and an ex situation of like, do you think that we get over past relationships that have been very meaningful by throwing ourselves into dating and seeing somebody new?

Or do you think that we should do some healing and be good solo?

Okay, so first of all, I think that even if you have had some time after a breakup, I think it's normal to have a visceral reaction to randomly seeing your ex, especially if it was like a relationship like Carrie's and Big's, which is very intense.

And there was a lot that happened in that relationship at that point. So I don't think it means you're not over them. It's just like truly like a visceral body reaction of like, I don't feel safe.

I don't feel good here. I think that's okay. I don't think that means you're not over them personally, in real life.

And in terms of like dating after a breakup, I think it's fine to date after a breakup because it does put some emotional distance between the breakup and where you are.

And it can prove to yourself that you can have connections and flirtiness and attraction with other people, even if you're not ready to take the plunge into a relationship, that does help you move forward.

It's like, oh yeah, in reality, they're not the only person I got along with and I'm going to be okay. I dated after my breakup and I just told people, I'm not ready for a relationship. And I dated casually.

So that looked like I had maybe one to three dates with people and then moved on. It didn't go further. I just was like, I'm not here to have a relationship, I'm just here to have fun and meet people.

And as a woman, it was pretty easy to do that.

I bet.

Yeah, that was pretty easy.

What do you think about the analogy of the bad first pancake? Kind of like the first person that you date after a big relationship is going to turn out horribly because it's like the first pancake.

I've never heard that analogy. I love that. I'm going to borrow that from you Isabel.

The bad first pancake. I made pancakes this morning right before we recorded it. I think my worst one was the last one.

That happened to me too.

I don't know what that says about my love life.

I do agree. I do believe in not every case. There are some exceptions, but I do think the first person you date after a breakup might not be the best fit for you.

I think it's just a little, you're dipping your toe in. It might not work, but sometimes it does. After I dated a guy for eight months, I got into my next relationship after a few weeks that lasted six years.

Yeah. Okay.

All right. I like that. Okay.

And then it all gets to the end of the episode. I haven't really touched upon Miranda and Samantha's storylines, but Samantha has had this crazy storyline where she is dating an ENT and they have sex on Viagra. And she gets addicted to it.

I didn't care for this storyline.

No.

And also, I deserve support.

Yeah.

It's not scientifically correct. Like, yeah, women do not get that kind of... We get more from being stimulated from, like, pregame and, you know, everything before penetration for us to get that kind of orgasm.

Miranda has an interesting storyline where she is treading the line between is what she has with Steve, intimacy or a rut.

Charlotte finally confronts Dennis about Bill, and Dennis tells her, like, meet me at this bar and basically says, sorry, I could not set you up with Bill because I'm in love with you.

And Charlotte is like, oh my God, I don't want to be your, like, your side chick or whatever. And she leaves the bar running, falls onto the road while trying to hail a cab. And she meets Trey.

And Carrie finally is chasing Aiden. Aiden's nowhere to be found. So she imposes herself on the meet up with the parents.

Yeah.

What do you think about her imposing herself at the end?

A little again, a little dramatic.

This episode is about drama, right? It's like a grand romantic gesture. That's how I would categorize that.

You didn't have to go through all that though, necessarily to get to that moment. But I'm happy that she showed up. I'm happy she actually did it in the end and met the parents and moved forward and got over it and realized she was creating problems.

She created the drama she was craving, which is usually what happens if you're not self-aware. So I'm glad she ended up doing it, but I didn't like the way she did it.

It feels really unfair to Aiden.

But in her voiceover, she kind of says like, I made my own stomach flip and I kind of liked it, meaning she was feeling really unsteady about the fact that she had imposed herself onto Aiden with his parents, which I'm like, okay, you're enabling

I have so many thoughts on this.

I think when people are always like, shouldn't a relationship, I don't feel excited. This relationship doesn't feel exciting to me. And I wish more people realized, you don't, your relationship isn't there to entertain you or be exciting.

You bring the excitement to your own life. Like, that's your responsibility. It's not, don't, if you have a boring life, a relationship isn't meant to like spice it up.

Yeah.

But do you think you should feel inspired by your partner? Because I think that is the, yeah.

But it's like, there's a difference between, I can admire, respect and feel inspired by my husband, but I don't expect him, our relationship, to be exciting.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

My job is exciting, like, I don't know.

I've sometimes been in relationships where I'm like, nothing's wrong, but I'm not really feeling it.

Oh yeah, for me, when I've experienced that, I just didn't respect the guy. I didn't have respect for him. And that's why I felt like that.

Like, you're a good person, I just don't respect you. And like, in the way I want to respect someone, and look up to them, and whatever. But I think, like, when I watch Miranda's story, I'm like, I love what she has.

That's amazing. I mean, we ran into the whole Skid Marks thing, which sucks. Like, also, why are you doing his laundry?

Like, you don't have to do his laundry, you can do his own laundry. That's why, if I ran into that situation, I'm like, where I found Skid Marks, I'm like, I'm just not doing your laundry anymore.

I would leave it up to him being like, and that is why. Shame on you. Okay.

So I'm going to jump into the end of my episodes where I ask you to give advice to the girls. Starting with Carrie, how would you recommend she could self-regulate before she falls into self-sabotage?

Yes. I think she was aware of the problem of like, nothing's wrong and that feels wrong. And she didn't go in the right direction.

So at that point, I wish she had done some more self-reflection of like, okay, why does it feel so weird to me? What from my past is telling me something is wrong? How can I maybe talk to Aiden about how I'm feeling and why?

And what, what, and just maybe even just sharing that with him would have helped her regulate more and just bringing him in to what her experience was.

You can tell your partner like, hey, I actually, I really like where this is going, but I'm uncomfortable because I've never felt this safe in a relationship before. And I just want you to know that because I'm going through it.

And Aiden would have been like, cool, yeah, thanks for telling me. Like then with that awareness, like could have gotten closer.

Yeah. I mean, I think I did that once and it blew up in my face, but then I guess he wasn't meant to be it. Yeah.

I mean, I think a secure person like Aiden would not interpret that as I'm having doubts or I'm unsure.

Like it's just like, I had this experience in my past that makes me feel unsafe when things are safe. And it's not about you. It's my stuff.

It's the stuff I'm dealing with, but you're here. So we're in it together, you know?

Yeah. Okay. What about Charlotte?

How would you recommend she could date intentionally, wink, wink to your podcast without maybe being so, I don't know, like relentless?

And what is kind of like the best advice that you could give to somebody that is looking quote unquote the one or to get married?

I think Charlotte should have just put a pin in it and moved on and like met more of her married friends and, you know, repeated the, like rinse and repeat the process.

She only met one of her married friend couple for the set up where wasn't she reaching out to more. Obviously, it's a TV show, they have to like dig into one thing.

But that's my advice to Charlotte, just like keep going, keep doing it, get more contacts this way and eventually something will hit.

And generally, like, I think one thing to show, especially the ending where she meets Trey, I'm like, I want Charlotte to know it doesn't matter how you meet the person, that actually, that detail of how you met doesn't really matter for how good the

relationship can be. It doesn't, like, like I met my husband on Hinge, it's not a romantic story, but we have an amazing relationship.

So she meets Charlie, she falls, it's like damsel in distress, he saves her from the street and he picks her up and he whisks her away or whatever. That doesn't actually mean anything.

I mean, no, man, that she was in a very empty marriage where she felt really alone and horny.

Yeah.

But what do you think are some key things that you can do to date intentionally if you're not like you when you were right after a relationship, look into date casually, but like look into date with the intention of...

Dating intentionally to me is aligning your actions with what you want.

So if you want to get married and like within a year, you can only focus your energy on men who are on that wavelength of you're not going to get into a situationship with a guy who doesn't know what he wants.

You're not going to have a friends with benefits. You're going to only focus your energy on men who are serious.

And yeah, that might require having a more open mind about what kind of package that comes in, what they look like, how tall they are, what their job is. You're looking to get married, so you have to align your actions with that.

You're not going to pull a carry and self-sabotage because that won't get you married.

Or date the guy that is a fixer-upper and you're going to get him to commit. Yeah, exactly.

You're not going to date for potential. Right.

Okay. What about Miranda? How do you think that she could work to keep intimacy alive without falling into a rut?

Because I think when she's walking with Carrie wearing that outfit, she says, like, I'm not sure it's intimacy that we have. I think what we have is a rut. And she doesn't seem to know the difference.

I think my advice for Miranda is that the romance in long-term relationships where you live together ebbs and flows.

Sometimes you're not going to feel the most romantic, and it doesn't mean the relationship is doomed or over.

It just means you have to actually put effort into planning date nights, going away, doing things that are a little bit different, intentionally breaking up your routine, which does require more energy than you think. So that's my advice for Miranda.

Just accept that this is part of it sometimes, and you both have to put in effort to keep the romance alive.

Yeah, I agree. Okay, and finally Samantha, who had this torrid affair with an ENT, and he introduced her to V, i.e. Viagra.

And I researched on this, because I was like, okay, what are the risks of a healthy young man with no erectile dysfunction to take Viagra? And it's actually pretty high, especially if you have any kind of family history of heart disease.

And I also asked, what happens if you're a woman and you take it and like, it does draw more blood maybe down there, but because women's libido works more through the mind, you won't get what Samantha got.

But do you agree that it was a bit of pathetic when they show her like an addict, being like, just give me one more, one more, please.

And like, yeah, no, it's like, yeah, this is not a good story line for Samantha at all. My advice to Samantha is maybe do some research before you start popping pills.

I don't know. It's so interesting. Because I was listening to Kristen Davis' podcast, Are You a Charlotte?

The other day. And they were talking about the episode where Samantha's tasting or tasting, dating the guy with the weirdest tasting spunk.

And she said, like, they only carried out storylines or most other storylines were about stories that had happened to either Candace or the writers of the show. So that was a real story.

And I found myself wondering, did one of them go out with a doctor that prescribed Viagra willy nilly?

Because, like, I could see that happening. I could see that totally happening. Oh, 100 percent.

Like, men are obsessed with their penises. Like, of course that would happen.

Totally. Yeah. But that's the end of the episode.

So thank you so much, Talia. I think just to wrap it up, I'd love for you to tell our listeners how to find you, what's coming on your podcast, what you're excited about sharing on this platform.

Yes. You are more than welcome to slide into my DMs on Instagram, at Dating.Intentionally. And all of my episodes are available on Spotify, Apple, everywhere.

My podcast is called Dating Intentionally, and I talk about how to have fun in the dating process, how to make your dating life more like Sex and the City vibes and not like job interview vibes.

Yeah.

So yeah, go listen.

No, and I love that you're also taking also some questions now from the DMs and you kind of like share them in the show and give your point of view, which I learn a lot from. So thank you.

Thank you. Thank you for listening.

Thank you so much, Talia. I hope to see you again soon.

Oh, this is so fun. Thank you.

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