Urban Myths, Bailing on Friends & Why Big Showing Up Doesn't Fix the Root Cause — S2E8 with Yasmina Aoun

About This Episode

In Season 2 episode eight of And Just Like That… We Found Therapy, host Isabel MV sits down with her best friend and the show's graphic designer, Yasmina Aoun, to unpack Sex and the City's "The Man, The Myth, The Viagra." It's the episode where everyone's chasing an urban myth — men can change, love at first sight is real, and second chances work. Carrie is convinced Mr. Big is different this time, Miranda meets Steve and immediately tries to sabotage it, and Samantha considers dating a 72-year-old for his diamond collection.

What We Cover

• Second chances: do they work, and can people actually change — or only when they want to?

• Urban myths we've all fallen for: the one night stand that became a marriage, the man who changed for someone else, and "it happens when you're not looking"

• Why Carrie bailing on Miranda for Mr. Big's piece of veal is a bigger red flag than it looks

• Miranda meeting Steve — and why her cynicism is really just fear of getting hurt wearing a disguise

• Big backing out of meeting the friends and showing up at the last minute: romantic or just breadcrumbing?

• Why Carrie never actually communicates how important things are to her — and how that enables Big's behaviour

• Dating a 72-year-old for diamonds: get your bag, but know what you're actually looking for

• What it means when your partner doesn't want to integrate into your life — and when to call it

• Charlotte's hopeful romanticism vs. delusional thinking: where does the line sit?

• Why actions always speak louder than words — and what Big's actions are actually saying

About Our Guest

Yasmina Aoun is the talented graphic designer behind the And Just Like That… We Found Therapy logo and branding. She is available for freelance graphic design work and, apparently, also offers an extensive repertoire of excuses for bailing on plans. Find her on Instagram — link in the show notes.

Transcript

We're on. Ready?

No. Oh, gosh. Okay.

Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode of And Just Like That We Found Therapy.

I have with me today one of my very good friends, Yasmina Aoun. Thank you for joining us. Yes, how are you?

Hey, how are you?

I'm so excited to be here, and very nervous too, but there we go.

You're going to come off as a pro. Before we get into it, I just want to mention that Yass is obviously one of my best friends.

She is also the creator of And Just Like That We Found Therapy Pods artwork, both the logo and a little sticker that she made for me to do the Instagram tag. So thank you very much for that, Yass.

My pleasure. Fun project.

Yeah. She got the assignment. She got it right.

And I am in love with it. But today she is also here working over time for me to discuss season two, episode eight of Sex and the City, The Man, The Myth, The Viagra.

Yes.

And I'm very excited because this is one of the episodes where we get introduced to Steve. Also, the toxicity of relationships being forgiven is starting to seep through to the audience. So I'm very excited.

So am I.

Honestly, you gave me choices. I picked this one. I think it's a great, great, great episode.

And there's lots and lots to talk about.

Yes, there is.

Yeah, let's get into it.

Let's get into it. Okay. So the episode begins with Carrie writing, like once upon a second time around, because she is talking about her and Mr.

Big giving it a second chance to their relationship. They're out and about in town and they're both really dressed up. They have a very old school date where Mr.

Big takes Carrie to an Italian place where they know him. He's being charming. He ends up singing a song and dedicating it to her.

And she just says in her voiceover, it was just perfect.

Yeah.

What do you think about that? Do you think that second chances are always a lost cause? Have you ever given a second chance and been like, Oh my God, yes, he got all the notes and he implemented them.

And now he's the man that I always wanted.

I mean, I don't think second chances are a lost cause. Definitely not. But I think people can change, but only if they want to change.

They're not changing because the other person is asking them to. In this case, I mean, to be fair, Big does seem like the perfect boyfriend. Everything thus far has been proven otherwise.

So in terms of Carrie being like, this is perfect, that's kind of understandable. Has he really changed?

The thing is that what you said, I think, is bang on. Like, somebody cannot change because you ask them to. And in reality, Carrie hasn't even asked.

Because she always kind of like compromises with half-truths of what it is that she's not getting, or what it is that he's not giving. And I think he thinks he knows, but like Carrie is a writer, so she's very good with words.

She should be kind of a bit more forthcoming with exactly what it is she needs from him this second time around.

Absolutely. But I think even then, you can keep telling someone, this is what I need, this is what I need, this is what I need.

Yeah.

That person, on the other hand, is not going, is going to hear it. But unless you feel like you're the one to, you're the one that needs to change.

Yeah.

You're not going to change.

Yeah.

So it's true.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I do feel like sometimes we change just to bend over backwards and like be okay with what it is that we're receiving.

I mean, that's compromise. And that, I think, definitely needed in relationships. But you need to do the inner workings yourself.

And, okay, if someone asks you to do a bit of changing, compromise a little bit of yourself. Yes, you definitely have to be willing. I think what you said about Carrie not actually voicing exactly what she needs.

I think that's so true. And Big is a charmer. He knows exactly how to pull the switch and drag her back in.

I was so charmed by him in this first scene.

But then I think we move over to the girls having brunch and they introduce the theme of the episode, which is, you know, urban myths and urban legends.

I think one of the urban myths that gets explored in this episode is one night stands that become a relationship or the boyfriend that was horrible, lost his girlfriend, realized what he had lost, and then he became the dream boyfriend.

And we get the different girls' points of view.

And of course, Miranda is being like, no, men are the worst because the other story line, sorry, is that Miranda is out on a date in New York's version of Hell, which according to the writers was stand up comedy. And this scene is actually hilarious.

It is.

Miranda is on her first date with this guy that is apparently separated or divorced. And he goes to pay because the stand up comedian is so terrible. And then his phone rings while he's away.

The stand up comedian asks Miranda to pick it up and basically would discover that it's his wife. And Miranda runs off being like, if they're not married, they're like separated, they're liars, blah, blah, blah.

Have you ever been in a situation where you've been misled by somebody who has spoken for?

Oh, yes. But a very, very long time ago, I think we were like, it's different when you're a teenager. Yes.

And obviously marriage is a lot more serious than just, oh my God, can we, can you be my boyfriend when you're like 16, 17?

Yes.

You know, it's not serious. So to me, I would say yes, but I can't relate to what Miranda... I went through for sure at that horror story of a date.

So that was horrible.

Yeah, it is.

It's a horror story.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think the guy's like, no, we're separated. Sorry. I thought we were clear.

And Charlotte was like, Miranda, maybe he just wanted a bit more time and maybe he will choose you over his wife.

And she did say something that's very interesting. It's like, but maybe he does really like you.

Yes.

Yeah. And that to me, yeah, okay. But the guy is still married.

Is that a deal breaker for you?

Like until the divorce is final, you don't touch that?

To me, yeah, absolutely. That would be a deal breaker. I think so.

I think I wouldn't even find that the person remotely attractive if he's taken.

But what if they're in the process?

That would automatically x to me.

Like say they have filed for divorce or whatever the equivalent is.

We could play the what ifs game forever. But I don't know. I think it's a tricky one.

Unless you're in that situation, I could never really say never. But I'll say I don't think I would go there.

Okay, very black and white.

Probably.

Okay.

Is it black and white though?

I mean, would you? Yeah, I've been there. I've dated somebody that was in the process of divorcing.

Yeah, but we're talking about that it's known that it's in the process of divorcing.

It's not like someone... If things are out in the open, absolutely. You make your own choices.

But if that person was still married, you'd be a little bit reluctant. Let's see. But if you're 100% sure that that person is married, would you cross that threshold?

No, especially if that person is married and there's no plans whatsoever getting divorced.

But besides that, what are the other urban myths?

Because I think they're talking about, oh, it's always the cousin of a friend's friend who had the one night stand that turned into the love of their lives or met a man that was married and like they were really the love of their lives.

So he left his wife and now they're happily married. What is your version of that urban myth that made you maybe go down a road you shouldn't have?

That's a, I'm going to answer the question of what is the urban myth? Has it led me down to the road? Maybe, maybe not, but I think the main one that you always, always hear is, it'll happen when you don't look for it, you know?

And I'm not looking for it. It has not happened. To answer your question, has it led me to that road?

I guess.

Yeah.

But it hasn't led me to anything, has it? Yeah. And there's always, as I think, was it Samantha that was saying, the friend of a friend of a friend?

Like you do hear these stories. I think sometimes they do happen, but they can't be considered the norm, right?

Yes.

Like that's not the...

That's the exception, not the norm.

Yeah, exactly. That's not... We all want that fairy tale.

Oh my God, the meat, cute. Oh, I dropped my coffee.

He tells me.

Of course you go into these things, because obviously that's all we've seen. Sex and the City. Yes.

All of these...

I was going to say my urban myth that has let me down the wrong pathway too many times is that men can change. And this is the crux of what I started this podcast. The fact that Charlotte is like, no, we know a myth that is true.

And she points at Carrie and she's like, they gave it a second chance. Mr. Big is a changed man and the relationship is so different and she's so happy.

And Carrie does say, like, I can't explain why. It just feels different. It is good.

Yeah.

And Miranda was just like, okay, I'll see it.

Like, explain yourself. And Carrie's just like, I would, but you're so scary right now. I'm scared too.

But yeah, I've definitely thought that, you know, an old, like an older man can change and have follow that rabbit hole into a whole lot of nothing, especially because if they don't want to change, they won't change.

And the older they're digging their heels into that, the harder it is.

I think with Charlotte specifically being that she's the one who brought the subject up to the group that, oh, but that person changed for that friend of a friend. Charlotte is the hopeful one clearly in this friendship group, isn't she?

And yeah, you want to have hold out that hope that sometimes maybe that person will change, and you want to be the one that they changed for.

Yes.

Not that change them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think that's the satisfaction part more than anything. Yes. But yeah, urban myth, I mean, there are way too many to pick from.

Definitely. The meat cute thing, the...

I mean, I think we've become too cynical to believe in the meat cute.

I don't... Yeah, 100%. Or is it cynical or is it like...

Don't say realistic.

But is it like what we...

Life, I guess, life as we know it today. I mean, the dating world today is clearly, clearly very different than 2006 and the City.

1999, yeah.

Yeah, there you go.

Okay. Then the other scene, this episode is just like so filled with things.

Yeah, there's so many stuff.

We get Mr. Trump. Samantha is at the bar.

Yeah. Samantha is at a bar and she sees Mr. Trump.

I'm sorry, President Trump. Oh, my God. At the back end of the bar, speaking to some old dude that approaches her, tries to pick her up and Samantha finds out that he is a gazillionaire.

Then she's walking down the road with Carrie and she's like, what's your deal breaker maximum age? She's like, 50? Samantha's like, what if they're like super, super rich, trillionaires?

She's like, 50? Then Samantha's like, well, I think I'm seeing a young 72-year-old. Have you ever dated anybody that was inappropriately older than you?

Inappropriately older, probably not.

Fairly older, yes. Did it lead anywhere other than a first date? No.

But I wouldn't say that would stop me from dating someone older again.

Yeah.

It's just that situation just didn't pan out.

Do you have a deal breaker?

I don't think age is the issue a little bit. Age is a bit of a construct in a sense. I think I would be more wary of dating someone younger than me.

Or a lot younger than me. Yeah. The older they are, I think the more experienced they are.

Not with obviously, I mean, with everything.

Yes.

You know, with life in itself. Yes. But the thing here is about money.

Yes.

Would you bend any of your standards for that?

I don't think I would, but I'll caveat that by saying, obviously, we all want some comfortability. You know what I mean? Yes.

But does that equate to connection? You know what I mean?

Or intimacy.

Or intimacy more so, I guess, it becomes more of a transaction in Samantha's case.

Yes. You and me are so well-versed in real housewives. And what happened to every housewife that just depends on the husband's money for everything?

They get cheated on, divorced from, landed in jail, landed in jail, never works out.

Yeah, exactly. But I think of course, if you're used to maybe a certain kind of lifestyle and someone brings that for you, yes, I mean, it's always an added plus.

But is that something that you're only looking for and focused on and everything else goes away?

Yeah.

I mean, hopefully for some women, maybe, you know, good for them. Get your bag, girl. I'm okay.

I wouldn't be able to do that. I think long term, no, it just gets transactional.

When you, I think, and also when you have met The Real Deal, which I think this is part of Samantha's background, that like she never quite gets a love story. It's just like either sex or something else where the sex is not there.

When you get the full package, I think that it becomes harder to compromise and say like, yeah, I'd be all right marrying an old dude just for money if he treated me right.

Because when you've seen The Real Deal, I think it's harder to be like, I'm never going to have that in my life because I'm marrying into money.

Oh, I agree. One million percent. And let's give it to Samantha.

She's the only one that's going to go for these types of situations. She's never going to say no.

She walks a walk so that we can talk and talk.

Exactly. And especially like growing up watching this. We were very young watching it.

I think I was in my teens. And then you see these kinds of situations come up and you're like, Yeah, Samantha. Everybody will say they're a fan of Samantha when they're talking about Sex and the City.

Why is that? Because she's an open, sexually, maturely, strong, independent woman. And she really goes for what she wants and vocalizes it.

And we all kind of aspire to be somewhat like her.

Yeah. I mean, she gets hurt the least, which I think is the crux of the matter.

This is all right. It is what it is. Let's move on.

Let's get the next one.

Yeah. OK. And then the next scene is a very interesting one, especially from the point of view of friendship of this show.

We get Carrie and Mr. Big at Mr. Big's flat and they are being so cute.

Again, I was falling hard for Mr. Big in this episode. He is cooking for her.

Carrie is asking her. Because I think from the conversation that the girls were having at brunch, she realizes I want to show them really how good my relationship is now. So she asks him, like, hey, I want you to go out for dinner.

And she kind of says it like super fast because she's scared of asking something of this man and ruin the good kind of like track that they've been on.

And she's like, I want you to go out for dinner on Saturday at eight at this restaurant called An Isle with my friends because I want you to meet them better. And Mr.

Big at the beginning was like, whatever, I know them like Charlotte is a brunette, Miranda is a redhead and Samantha is trouble. And she was like, okay, then I want them to get to know you better. And then he says, okay.

And Carrie is just like, why are you being so cute? Cue in, phone call from Miranda. And Miranda is like, hey, are you okay?

And Carrie is like, yeah, didn't you get my message? And Miranda is like, no, is everything okay? I came straight to the bar where we're supposed to meet before dinner, are you okay?

I thought you were dead. And she was like, yeah, no, it's just that Mr. Big got a piece of veal, we're staying in and he wanted to make me dinner.

And Miranda gets super pissed off. Rightly so.

I think so, yeah.

But what do you think about this? Because obviously, I don't know, is the equivalent of texting? Because you, I'm sorry, yes, I'm going to put you on the spot.

You, you bail last minute. I do, 100%.

I'm the fakest person ever.

Yes. So is leaving a message in the machine an hour ago that I think Carrie says, or whenever it is, the equivalent of sending a message saying, and I'm going to become yes in this, is boo, I'm not coming tonight. I don't feel good.

I've given the one million reasons.

Honestly, if anybody wants ideas of how to come to me, I've got the playbook on that.

Yes, you do.

I don't think that's what I mean. That's not a reason for Miranda to be upset. The bailing out.

This is my response as the flaky person in the group. I think, one, it wouldn't happen today because obviously you're always on your phone. You get the text message immediately.

Yes.

It's not about the bailing out.

It's the cause. Why are you bailing?

Yes.

Why are you being flaky on me for someone who has up to that point always flaked out on you? Yes. But I don't think that's why Miranda was upset.

That's what's funny.

Yes. The thing is that Miranda then goes really, really hard on Carrie and she's like, this is bullshit. Your relationship hasn't changed a bit.

The man picks out a piece of politically incorrect meat of the butcher and you drop everything to adjust to his plans.

That's super valid, in my opinion, knowing what we know so far with Carrie.

Yes. I think Carrie doesn't prioritize right-ly and Miranda is such a good friend to her. Agreed.

But I do think Miranda is like, okay, dude, like that's a bit fucked up, but let's talk about it tomorrow.

Yeah. I think Miranda was maybe wrong, maybe upset for the wrong reasons, but she was very, very right to be upset.

Carrie is the type of person who will drop everything for the guy or for something she perceives to be, oh my God, this is an amazing connection. I can't, nothing can ruin it, you know? Yes.

I think she doesn't see the red flags. She doesn't see that we're in a moment in time in their relationship where Big turned on the charm.

Yeah.

Just to, I'm going to say, I don't even know, but like, let's say two episodes later, switch back, you know?

Yeah.

So she really wants to hold on to that moment in time, you know? And I think Miranda has every right to be upset, but she should probably say that it's because, oh, you're flaking out on me.

Yeah.

Someone who has always been here for you.

Yeah.

For someone who will probably do something shitty again.

For somebody who hasn't prioritized you.

Exactly.

Yes. So you're prioritizing somebody who hasn't prioritized you and kind of like bailing on somebody that has been there for you while this dude was putting you through hell.

I'm all for you go do your thing, but have the right reasons, you know?

Yes. Yes. Okay.

My biggest telltale sign of like, this is not a healthy relationship is that...

Between Carrie and Big.

Yes. Is that when she hangs up, Mr. Big asks, is there a problem or is everything okay?

Because like, nope, everything's fine. Like she keeps lying and hiding things. And that's where I get very anxious because I've been in that position.

And then I know something's wrong.

Because she wants to stay in that bubble of perfection that is in the moment.

Yes.

Nothing's going to come and burst it.

Yeah. She doesn't want to scare Mr. Big from the dinner on Saturday.

Nothing is wrong right now.

But because the universe has a sense of humor and things happen when you least expect it and when you're not looking for it.

Frankly. That's when Miranda meets Steve.

Yeah.

And I want to get your point of view on how this goes on. Because like whatever Steve's trying to be like cheeky and cute with Miranda.

And like, I would have loved that because if I just had a fight and I was alone at a bar and a waiter that is also reading Hemingway, like, you know, they tried to paint him in a light where he's like educated, well read, witty, funny, is saving the

night. And then you take him home and they say she, he served her two orgasms. And then Miranda's a bit of a bitch. Okay.

Do you agree she was a bitch?

Oh, 100 percent. But Miranda's the cynical one.

Super cynical.

Yeah. You know, so it's like when everything is going, has been going wrong so far.

Yeah.

When someone comes, Steve is portrayed as the emotionally available person compared to Big, who is the complete opposite.

Yes.

So when someone comes in Miranda's life and she's always been either, oh, the guy, she was on a date earlier on the show, had a wife, blah, blah, blah, they're either divorced. She's got like a list of reasons why they're all horrible, horrible men.

This guy comes with the cards on the table and is like, can I have your number? I want to take you out for dinner.

So you're like, no, something's not right here. You know, you're always like, it's too good to be true.

Yes. Yes. Or she would rather, yeah, she, I feel like she's trying to get ahead of the herd.

And after he's leaving, she's just like, you don't have to do this. You don't have to pretend to ask for my number to pretend that you're going to take me out. Let's call this what this was, a one night stand.

Thanks. Great sex.

And this is Miranda. I feel like I've been like this most of my life. Really?

No, in the sense where you kind of try to avoid disappointment by being the one who gets out of it first.

Yeah.

Because you have this fear of being hurt.

Yes.

I think Miranda's cynicism is really, really, really laid back onto the fear of getting hurt. Masked as cynicism, but it's actually really sad.

It is really sad.

So once someone who comes and shows her how to be well treated, like, you know, it's like this is new to her. She just doesn't really know what to do with herself with that.

Yeah.

So she kind of pulls what she usually pulls and is like, I'm going to stop this at its tracks now before it gets any further. And you're then eventually going to hurt me because that's what she's used to.

Yes.

And I mean, I love Steve. We all love Steve. We know how this one ends up.

Do you really?

Yes.

I love Steve.

Yes.

He needs to get... Oh, God.

And I'm sorry because he does lose the ball, but like he needs to get a pair on and like, you know, be a bit more like, when they get... We'll get into it. But like, yeah, I don't like Steve.

Like, he's a great guy, but it's just like...

Right now, in that moment has done nothing wrong to you.

Yes, yes. He's great. Just what Miranda needed.

Exactly.

And I think that's... I think it's an interesting... I mean, Steve had to be the guy for Miranda because he's completely...

He's so soft. No, I think he has... He's open with his feelings.

You know what I mean? He's completely different as to what Miranda usually goes for. And I think that's what's needed sometimes to break the pattern she needed.

I don't know.

I think she needed... I liked the doctor that moves into...

I can't remember.

Either that...

Oh, the doctor that moves into the building.

Yes, for the Knicks. Yeah. Because he was cool, wasn't scared of her, was a bit more forceful.

You like the manly man.

I like the manly man.

I like the self-aware man that will talk about their feelings.

Okay.

And will serve me to orgasms.

Fair.

Yeah. Okay. I'm the problem.

I think you are.

Okay.

So I think then Carrie is super excited about the dinner and she's like super well dressed, going to pick Mr. Big Up 45 minutes before the dinner is due. And he opens the door basically in his PJs.

And he's just like, Do you mind if I don't go? It's going to pour all night and like, I'm exhausted.

And Carrie says, and the reasons man, I mean, I get it. At least pull something smarter out of your ass as to why you can't go.

Fuck off. You've used that one again.

About the rain. True.

Yeah.

But not for like important things.

That's the thing. Yeah. Exactly.

Okay. So my issue with that, like fair, I understand where he's coming from, but like how unaware are you of the relationship you're in and how big of a deal this is that you think that that's okay?

But the thing is, I completely agree with you. But Carrie didn't make it seem like this was a huge deal to her, which in fact it is.

Yeah.

But that's the problem with this relationship. There's no, this guy is completely emotionally unchecked.

Yeah.

She's not good at communicating. So it's not like there's no way. Because she said, I'd love for them to meet you.

Yes.

But what she really meant was, please come.

Yeah.

You know, like.

We need to.

Yeah, we need to.

But it was never really said.

Yeah. But it breaks my heart because Carrie just says, yeah, I guess that's OK. And in her voiceover, she says, I was scared that if I looked them in the eye, I might burst into tears or something like that.

Turn into stone or something.

Yes.

That was even sadder.

Yes.

It was so sad. And again, I've been there. And she goes to the restaurant.

And what breaks my heart even more is that she doesn't have the heart to tell her friends he might not come. And she's just like buying herself time. I don't know what for.

Saying like, oh, I don't know. He was coming from work because they won't sit them until the whole party is there. Steve is trying to be the good guy and bringing all the girls drinks because his buddy works at the bar or something.

Miranda is saying inappropriate jokes about sleeping with a waiter. And I think we get to like the climax of the scene where Carrie's just like giving up and she says, maybe we should just say that it's the four of us. Let's just go get a table.

And Miranda says, I knew it. He's not coming. Right.

Men suck. Voila. I think at this point, Steve has already left and told her, like, what do you have against men?

Because I know this is not about me, but like, you've made a fool out of yourself and you've made me feel like shit. 100%. And then, this is where the problem with the series begins.

Mr. Big appears.

I mean, that's unrealistic, in my opinion.

I don't think it's unrealistic. It's unrealistic. With him.

Yes.

My point exactly. But I think, let's, okay, if it's for the show, I think it is for the show because then Miranda runs out and she's kissing Steve in the rain.

I mean, they kind of wanted to, like, Because, yeah, they, you know, gift wrap the episode by bringing up things from the start. That's in show term.

Yes.

But in reality, big showing up if he did, like, if something like this happens in reality and he shows up, yes, amazing. It's great. It proves me right for a second.

But to me, that's just bread crumbing. It's not the focus of the actual root cause of their issues. It's just what needed to be said, you know?

I mean, I love it cause I think I tried to put myself in his shoes and, like, he's at home and, like, you can tell he really likes her and he's probably missing her and then probably some thought cross there being like, oh, she looks sad.

What am I gonna do? Just stay in and miss her and, like, cause if anything I would ask her to come over after, like, I'll just go.

But that's funny that you're thinking in his shoes.

Cause I have to do it for the show.

It's for research. Oh, okay. But that's not how, we don't really know if that's the way he thought about it.

I know.

That's the thing.

Yeah.

That's the, like, nicely rose-tinted glasses way of seeing that that's what was his way of thinking.

Yes.

Which I highly, highly doubt.

Knowing what we know. I mean, we've all seen the show, you know.

But, but yeah, I love that. I love how Carrie, like, lights up the minute he appears. And then he does deliver and he's like being funny and like has banter with her friends.

And it's, it's a very nice ending to the episode.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, of course. And that's all that Carrie wanted.

Yes.

As the five wise girls on my t-shirt have said, if you want to be my lover, you got to get with my friends.

For those of you just listening, she's wearing a Spice Girls, I think a tour tee that is epic.

And it worked out for this episode.

It worked out.

Yeah, well done. But now I think you know what I mean.

I think that's something that was important to her. But not only in terms of you got you're going to meet my friends, but I want you to be integrated into my life.

Yes.

And I think him backing out at first is him not wanting to be fully emotionally accountable in that relationship. He's still having those boundaries and being that one foot in, one foot out.

I mean, it's really nice that he ends up showing up at the end. But it's like I said, I think they're in that phase of their relationship at the moment, where it's all going amazingly.

I do think for you, it would be a deal breaker if your partner doesn't get along with your friends, right?

I think so. I mean, no. I don't think it would be a deal breaker.

It would be obviously amazing if everybody got along. I think what would be a deal breaker if he didn't like my friends or vice versa. Because if my friends don't like him, so they must see something in him that is not right for me.

You know what I mean? That's how I look at things. They don't have to get along because you don't have to get along with anybody actually.

Your relationship is your own. Ideally, everybody gets along. I think it's...

Or in the words of The Real Housewives, just at least be cordial.

Exactly.

Okay.

So that's the end of the episode, which brings me to the last bit of my episodes where I'm going to ask you sort of maybe advice.

So for Charlotte that doesn't really get to appear, do you think that you believe more of a Charlotte, that she's optimistic and hopelessly romantic, things that, you know, Carrie and Mr. Big are really going to make it?

Are you a Charlotte in this episode?

I am definitely not a Charlotte.

What would you have an answer to her if you were at that branch table when Charlotte was like?

I think Charlotte, it's always nice to have a Charlotte in your life.

Yes.

But Charlotte goes into, I think it crosses the line from being hopeful to a little bit delusional. Yeah. And it's never grounded in truth, in my opinion.

Yes.

It's always, but this guy or this person, or of course, he needs to do this.

Of course, this can happen this way. So it's really like very big grand stories.

Yes.

Which we're all, of course, like, I mean, as we said in the beginning, we would all love that meet cute, but that doesn't happen today. There is no way you don't fall in falling in love at first sight. That's not clearly not.

I discussed this with Sabrina in the previous episode.

We believe in previous lives and sometimes there's that connection from previous lives that maybe gets translated.

Connection is completely different. You build on that.

But have you not ever met somebody and from the get go, something's pulling at you from the inside?

Yes, but that does that mean that you're going to end up getting married and having their children? No, the connection. Yes, you start with it.

But then to me, Charlotte believes in something A plus B equals C. In my opinion, it's yes, okay, of course, you can have that like incredible instant connection with someone. But it's a slow burn today.

You have to work on things. It doesn't just fall into your lap.

And she becomes that.

She believes that it just falls into your lap.

Yeah. Okay. Then what would you say to me if I told you like, Oh my God, yes, I met this 72 year old man.

He is quite cute. I know he's old, but I went for dinner to his place and he gave me a diamond bracelet and diamond earrings and a diamond necklace. I slept with him.

What would you tell me?

I am the first person that will say, girl, get your bag. One DP. That's my thing.

But if what you're looking for is a bag, the bag, great, go for it. But me knowing you, that's not what you're looking for. Could definitely be an added bonus.

I mean, no one would say no. You know what I mean? But you want that emotional, genuine connection.

But if you do get both, I mean, that's where all... You hit the jackpot.

I thought your answer was going to be one of your favorite one-liners. You do you boo.

You do you boo, always. But specifically, get your bag and then get me one. Okay.

I would give you one A-ring.

Thank you.

One?

One.

All right.

Okay. What would you tell Miranda or if you could feel yourself being Miranda with Steve, what would you tell Miranda if she was so abrasive about a man trying to properly date her and her being so cynical?

I mean, first of all, definitely go to therapy. Just to kind of find, to kind of understand. I mean, I relate a lot to Miranda in the sense where I get so much anxiety, then when I walk around and everything's good, I'm like, I'm going to wait.

Yeah, the shoe is going to drop.

Exactly.

Something bad is going to happen today. I kind of relate to her in that sense where you're so used to everything going on a certain way when there's something that's completely there. It's like a slap in the face.

You don't really know what to do with it. Yeah. What advice would I give to her?

Definitely go to therapy just to kind of understand where that's coming from.

Yeah. I think she's so scared of rejection.

It's also scared of rejection, scared of getting hurt because she has been.

Yeah.

She's been through really, I think Miranda also has the worst situations in this show.

Yeah.

Most of the time.

Yeah.

So I think that's why they brought in someone like Steve, who is such an opposite that it really disrupts, it has to disrupt the way she thinks.

Yeah.

But my advice to her is let it happen after getting therapy.

Yeah. Okay. For Carrie, how would you have reacted if you were Miranda on the other side of the phone when you get the news that your friend is bailing on you because she decided to stay at her boyfriend's?

I think as I said earlier, I would have been more upset about the bailing.

Like, you can bail. I'm the person you can bail on. Listen, I'd rather be home.

Yeah.

But to bail on me for someone who is not showing up the way you want him to, I think that would make me upset.

You know what I mean? And also, this doesn't really happen. Just one WhatsApp and you're good.

You know?

Okay. And then how would you have navigated if you were Carrie, you appear at your boyfriend's for this really important dinner, and he says, like, isn't it okay if I don't go? How would you have done that instead of what Carrie did?

I mean, I would hope I would be the kind of person to kind of see the red flags as soon as we start dating and not get to the point that we are today.

But let's say I am in this point. I would, when someone shows you who they really are, believe them, do you know what I mean? I think that moment to me would have been like, I guess, how would I put it?

Like a fork in the road. Like either go either going this way or we're going that way. And I think that's the moment where I would have picked up on, oh, but he's not actually showing up, showing up and actions speak louder, louder than words.

Like we're good in private, but he's not, he actually doesn't want to integrate in my life. He eventually does in that episode, of course.

But at that moment, you're not, you're not actually putting, you're not actually putting actions into movement, you know?

But then again, Carrie says nothing. Like I feel like, I mean, I mean, listen, Carrie, I would have, I would have said like, dude, this is a big deal.

She didn't, she didn't. She expected him to be self-aware enough to, to understand that this was important to her. But she was actually quite nonchalant about it in the beginning.

Like, oh, I'd love you to meet my friends. Actually, I would love them to meet you, but that doesn't really mean anything, you know?

So would you have tried to maybe made it, make it more clear, like, this is a big deal?

For the point of this episode, you know, I would say absolutely that, like, this actually is a really big deal for me. Like, go get dressed now or...

We're over.

You know, like, yeah, you know?

Yeah.

Do your part.

OK, great advice. And then just before I let you go, anything that you want to plug in, because you're doing fantastic freelance work as a graphic designer. Where can people find you?

What are you working on that you want to share?

Well, I can't share what I'm working on. Where can people find me? Through you, I guess, or through Instagram.

I will tag your IG account at Yasmina.

If you also want great excuses on how to bail on people, you can also reach me.

Yeah, and if you think she should publish a book on excuses on how to bail, I will pull forward a poll.

That is my plug.

Forget the graphic design work. That's what I want people to reach me out to me for.

I think you're going to be in high demand.

Yeah, I've got the good ones.

All right. Well, thank you very much, Yasmina. It has been such a pleasure.

This was so fun.

Loved it. We'll have you back soon.