The Season 3 Finale — Carrie Walks Away From Big & Why Miranda Was Both Right and Wrong — S3E18 with Scarlett Plott

About This Episode

In the Season 3 finale of And Just Like That… We Found Therapy, host Isabel MV is joined by her close friend and co-founder of Lesbian Supper Club, Scarlett Plott, to unpack Sex and the City's "Cock-a-Doodle-Do." It's the episode where Big calls Carrie after his marriage falls apart and she meets him at the boathouse — and actually walks away. Miranda tells Carrie she'll become pathetic again and lives to regret how she said it. Charlotte and Trey finally have sex the moment they separate. And Samantha eventually makes peace with the trans women outside her window by throwing them a rooftop party.

H2: What We Cover

• The trans women portrayal: why it's a product of its time, why it still matters, and how far we've come since

• How Lesbian Supper Club navigates inclusivity — trans women are women, and here's exactly how they define attendance

• Running into your ex with a new date: what to do in the first five minutes when it really hurts

• Miranda's speech to Carrie: the sentiment wasn't wrong, but the delivery was everything

• When does being a supportive friend become enabling a cycle? Where Scarlett draws the line

• Big calling Carrie after the affair blew up his marriage — should she have agreed to meet him?

• Carrie walking away from Big at the boathouse: finally changing the narrative, or just performing for him one more time?

• Why you can't build emotional attachment to someone based on their potential — and what the only two real options are when a cycle keeps repeating

• Charlotte and Trey having sex the moment they're no longer married: what that actually tells us

• Guilty pleasures, being judged and why people can only wound you in places where you already judge yourself

• If something is meant for you, it shouldn't be this hard: Scarlett's take, plainly stated

• What is Scarlett launching next — and why it came to her in one of her darkest moments

About Our Guest

Scarlett Plott is co-founder of the Lesbian Supper Club — community events, podcast and safe space for queer women across multiple cities. Find the podcast everywhere you listen and at @lesbiansupperclubpod on Instagram. Follow Scarlett personally at @_scarlettjp for the launch of her new podcast on mental health and extreme sports. All links in the show notes.

Transcript

Welcome back, Boundary Babes. It is the season three finale, and I could not think of a better person to close it out with than one of my closest friends and co-founder of the Lesbian Supper Club Podcast, Scarlett Plott.

We get into whether Carrie was right to see big after the effort blew up his marriage, how Samantha handled the trans women outside her window at 4 a.m., how Miranda could have been a better friend to Carrie, and yes, how a lesbian woman feels about

tracerectal dysfunction. Let's get into it. I'll see you on the other side. I love y'all.

Bye.

Oh, yeah. No. Yes, we are.

We are ready.

Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Fine.

Fuck me, dude.

This is why I don't... I refuse to do it.

I refuse to do it too, but then nobody does it, so I have to. Okay. Ready?

I'm ready.

Let's go.

Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode of And Just Like That We Found Therapy. Today is season three finale, and I am delighted to be joined by Scarlett Plott. Welcome, Scarlett.

Hello, everyone.

Hello, Issa.

For those of you who don't know, Scarlett is one of the founders of Lesbian Supper Club, and she's also now taken over motorcycle in her career.

I think it would annoy a lot of people to say taking over at this current stage, but... Well, you've... Yeah.

Like, let's dream it.

You've ventured into it. And you've become a big part of the S.

I'm trying to make a mark.

Which you're doing.

Hopefully.

Nobody looks as hot as you do on a motorcycle. And that's a fact.

I'll take it. Do you know what? I'll take it.

But today, you have kindly agreed to do with me season three, episode 18 of Sex and the City, Cockadoodledoo.

And this is all about...

Terrible name for a lesbian to be.

It's meant to be. It's meant to be because of the cock and bottle.

Well, it could have been like... No, I'm not going to say it.

Now you have to say it.

It could have been like fish in the sea or something.

Oh, God. The clam. But it's all about the aftermath of breakups and also trans.

So we're going to get into it. So the episode opens with Carrie being a walk in by what she calls the chickens, which turn out to be roosters. And at the same time, Samantha is getting awoken as well by a bunch of like very, very noisy trans women.

There's like three black trans women under her window trying to, you know, exercise their right to be sex workers. And they're being really, really loud and really, really rude. So their portrayal of trans is really, really ugly.

And then the girls are at brunch and like Samantha's like, can you believe that he said, get that shit off my ass or I'll shit on it?

Yeah.

Okay.

So my first question to you, as somebody who has been such an advocate for the LGBTQ plus space and what you guys are doing for Lesbian Supper Club, what do you think of that portrayal of trans?

I think it's terrible, but I think sadly, like it doesn't surprise me because that's still, again sadly, a portrayal that I think is very common in the media.

I think the best way to get people to conform to a certain opinion or way of thinking is to produce fear or to produce hate.

And so by showing this group of people in that way is kind of fulfilling societal binaries and ideologies that have always been the case historically.

It's reinforcing those negative narratives and connotations that people associate to trans people but then also the wider community.

Yeah.

So I think it's just a shame to be honest because I think whilst those conversations and that situation could or would probably play out in a scene with three trans people having these arguments or heated discussions on the street, could very much

happen with straight heterosexual people as well as. So I think it's in poor taste to be honest, to use influential and such huge TV shows such as this to push those harmful narratives when actually sex and the city generally is a very, quite like

liberal show. So again, yeah, I just think it's like a massive shame. But then I also think it's very telling of the time in which it was recorded.

Yeah.

Because I think the new seasons of A Sex and the City would never, which I think is really great.

And it is just showing how far we have come in so many ways, whilst actually also highlighting that whilst in this specific scenario, we've come leaps and bounds forward.

And I don't think that show would per se play out an episode or a scene like that again, that was harmful to a community.

I think there's actually sadly also so many other ways now in which queerness and trans gender people are actually being played out in the media.

In a really, really awful way and are being used as bait and scapegoats for wider political agendas, which is having like a really, really negative impact on people's lives and the community as a whole.

Do you think that you guys, because I know that at the beginning, especially you were very adamant about the fact that the Lesbian Supper Club events and spaces are meant to be for women, but also people that identify as women.

How did you come to make that decision? And what are the things that you had to consider?

So I think it's, first of all, I want to say that as far as Lesbian Supper Club, in my opinion goes, trans women are women. So I want to make that very, very clear.

Secondly though, it is a difficult one because it's also a space that a lot of people find sacred in terms of their queerness and their womanhood, et cetera.

And so we had to make sure that we were being open and inclusive and of course welcoming and including trans women whilst also making sure that we were allowing the whole community to feel like they were represented and in a space that felt like

theirs and was a community space. And so with Lesbian Supper Club, we define event attendance as AFAB and non-binary. So assigned female at birth and non-binary trans women and those that identify as trans.

And I think that is the best way that we can ensure that it is an inclusive space, but then is also exclusive. And we aren't allowing men into the space.

And when I say men into the space, we say that not actually for trans women because we don't want, for example, if you're an assigned female at birth, but you are identifying as a trans male, because just by the very fact that we then respect and

acknowledge that you identify as a male, it wouldn't be the space for you because it is a female space. And we've had so many amazing transgender people attend across all of our locations who have always been such beautiful, incredible souls and are

very welcome into our space and very welcomed by all of our guests. And I hope always have a really good time and feel like they are respected and included in our space.

I'm sure. But have you guys had to turn down trans men?

Yes. Because by them very default, you are a man. If you are a trans man, that is the whole thing.

Like we are accepting you as a man. And this is a space for non-binary and women and people who identify as female.

Right.

So if you are a trans man, you're a man.

Yeah. Do you think they were looking for like a queer community and you guys have just managed to create something that has made female, queer females feel really safe? And that is what they were going after?

Or was it something else? Like, oh, this seems cool. And I just didn't read what it was about.

I mean, it's only happened once.

And it was, you know, we didn't turn anyone out down at the door. It was a question, I think, posed to us via email. And we very respectfully said, you know, if you're a trans man, you're a man.

So it's a female space. And this person was very respectful and accepting of that. It's hard because you don't want to be in exclusionary space at all.

But then I also want to allow lesbians and women to have their space as well, because it is often always overtaken by different groups and men as well in any form. And that's our whole narrative is like, we are being in exclusive space in that way.

And not everyone's going to agree with that. And that's absolutely fine. But I think as I've learned from being in a public facing position, you can't please everyone.

So we know that we're not trans exclusive at all. We know that we have trans women, non-binary people attend. We know that we welcome them with open arms in exactly the same way as we would anyone else.

It's not even a question to us. And anything beyond that is... That's just what we do and that's what Lesbian Supper Club is.

And I think you can get to a space where you can't be everything to everyone all at once. And so we stay within the line of which we've built basically.

I love it. And you guys have done an amazing job of doing so.

I want to switch gears because in the next scene Carrie and Miranda are just walking down whatever, Manhattan, and they run into their exes. Steve and Aiden are sitting with their dogs having a beer and they freak out.

They try to hide from them and then they're like, okay, now we have to say hello. They go over, they see that there's four beers and they're like, oh my God, what did we do? Did we give you like a drinking problem?

Because they were like, they're obviously talking about us. And suddenly there are two dates up here and they're like, oh boy.

So they have like a bit of like a, you know, they bump into each other and like, okay, we got to go and they go on opposite directions. And then they finally managed to almost make a graceful exit.

My next question to you is, how do you think that is best to cope with running into your ex, especially if they're with a new partner slash date?

I'm going to preface this by saying, I know that I am an odd character in so many different ways.

And I know the way that I think about the world and the way that I walk through the world and the way that I decide how I am affected by things is genuinely very different to most people, I think.

And that's just something that I've come to accept about myself. What I would say firstly is I think it very much depends on where you are in the stage of the breakup.

I'm sure that for anyone, if you were to see your ex with someone a week after you've just broken up, it's going to be very, very difficult.

But if we're talking a few months to a few years after, I think at some point it's about, in everyone's healing journey, is about facing the reality that that's just the natural phase of life, is that people have relationships.

They end sometimes, well, actually, sadly, they end most of the time. Hate to be cynic, but it's true. Let's look at the stats.

And people move on, and that's a hard reality, but it's a very real reality. And I think if you have been with someone, and you have cared and loved for them deeply, you want them to be happy, ultimately.

So I think, for me, I find a lot of peace in thinking that my previous partners are happy and fulfilled and are hopefully with people who are good for them and make their lives better. I don't know. I don't think that I've ever...

One of my exes got with my best friend. That was hard. But more because of the friend, not because of the ex, weirdly.

Of course.

But I don't think I've ever seen anything, can felt that jealousy or those emotions of your stomach turning and thinking, oh my god, this is it.

I've lost them or they're with someone else. Because I just think that when you grow through a breakup, the whole point of processing that breakup is understanding that it's just a natural step that at some point that will happen.

And I just think that, yeah, I'm very much in the space of, I'd rather see the people that I care about be happy. And I think a lot of people wrap breakups into having to be toxic and stonewalling and all this. And I just, I don't know.

I just don't think that sometimes it's necessary. Sometimes it is necessary. But I think a lot of the time it goes back to kind of like the way that we've been taught how to handle things rather free thinking on things.

It's like, again, being taught via films and movies and what our parents have been told by their parents and what they've, which is like, once it's done, it's done, throw away the fucking key, hate their guts.

I just think it's just like a pretty sad and silly way of thinking because actually if we all take a step back, everyone comes into a life for a reason, season or lifetime.

And I think we should allow people to find their space in our lives and we don't always have to come at it with like such negative, hateful connotations. But again, recognize that a lot of people won't have comprehension for that.

But not the people that I want to be around.

I mean, I think it's, I try to like stick to that mantra. But like the first time, especially if you're the dumped and not the dumper, it's hard. Yeah.

And like that first few minutes of like, I just got to get through this are fucking tough. Especially if like you have the wound of like, why her and not me.

Yeah. I don't think it's, I think it's completely, completely normal to have and feel those emotions. I think the biggest part is like what we do with them.

Yeah.

And so I think it's absolutely fine to see it and have all of those feelings and thoughts come flooding in that you've just described.

But then it's also being able to take a step back, take a deep breath and not bring it to that past person in your life to that ex and actually take it to a trusted friend or even sit with yourself for a bit and process exactly why you feel that way.

Is it because you're actually still genuinely attached to said person or are you attached to an idea that they would come back or are you attached to a certain time or set of emotions that you felt when you were with them rather than the now?

And I think a lot of the time it's actually based on the theory of them rather than the reality of the here and now.

I agree. But fuck does it hurt.

Okay. I have a funny one next. Because Miranda is, you know, trying to survive seeing her ex with somebody else when she's still, even though she was the dumper in the midst of like, I just broke up with someone.

She is in her house with her cat, which might as well be our dogs. And she calls a Chinese takeout because back then there was no delivery room and she kind of gets the message that the Chinese takeout delivery lady is judging her.

It's like, yeah, every night, same thing, cold noodles, brown sauce, I know. And she tries and like goes there to confront the woman. But like, I have a funny question for you.

Do you have any guilty pleasures like this? Are you like, when I'm feeling like down in the dumps or like, I have this thing that like when I'm alone with Ziggy, I always, I don't know, put ketchup in my spaghetti. I know you do disgusting things.

Like, we all know that I do some pretty heinous things in the kitchen.

You've come a long way.

I've really evolved.

Although I will say, since I've become so much busier again, my fleeting love for cooking has sadly departed as of recent because I just don't have the capacity for it right now. Current guilty pleasure could be worse. It's not what it used to be.

I am back on my chicken nugget wraps.

Those are good.

I like to half a tortilla, put mozzarella, salt and tomato half over and put it in my toasty machine. Again, I don't think that's that bad.

That's pretty gourmet.

Since I've... I've actually had to rein it in a lot because since I have had this neurological condition and I've been taking this medication, it basically makes you hold on to a shitload of water weight. And so I've gained like three kilos in water.

Touch wood, I'm weaning off of it now. So like Hot Girl Summer's back.

Yeah.

But I'm not in a position right now where I can afford to just binge out. Sadly, I'm just also trying to negate like and escape the fact that it might be to do with age. I'm not letting myself get there.

It might also have to do that it was like scorching hot.

And like when it's scorching hot.

Yeah, everyone's just swollen.

Yeah. We are like water.

I also just know that like everyone around me is basically like on ozempic. Like micro... Yeah, everyone's microdosing it though.

I'm going to look into it.

Who's microdosing it?

I will say after. One of my friends... Look, this is bad by the way.

I don't advocate for this at all. But I was like, you look so good. She was like, me and the whole family are microdosing this and that.

And I was like, how are you sharing that? Because I think it comes in like a syringe, I think.

Yeah, so it's one for all.

Whole other thing. Used to... To be honest, I don't really have any guilty pleasure.

Sometimes I'll smoke a cigarette on my Shazam out the window.

Do you feel that you ever get judged? Because I have some usual spots where I go. But in Nottingham, it's hard to have a naughty...

Can you tell me where your guilty pleasures are so I can catch you out next time?

I don't know.

I feel like I used to always go to Barry's and get a shake even though I wasn't doing the class. And then I felt like a bit of judgment from the people at the counter being like...

You literally have done nothing to deserve this.

Where have you come from?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

No.

You never go anywhere. I was like, cigarettes again.

Cigarettes, yeah.

I was like, Essex, back again. Like, don't you go to, like, as Deanne calls it, the deli, aka the convenience store.

Sometimes I do like to go to the corner shop and get a bag of squishies.

What are squishies?

They're like, they're a really good candy. It's like kind of a marshmallow-y texture, but not as marshmallow-y. They're delicious anyway.

But I usually get those when I'm with Jasmine, so I can share them out with her and she can relieve me of my guilty pleasure, aka the seven-year-old child that I hang around with quite a lot. Yeah.

I was actually thinking about this when we were realigning the camera. Loads of, actually loads of guilty pleasures, like I like to socially smoke, I like to drink, I like to eat bad food every now and then.

I think what we're coming at here is talking about judgment overall. And I think people can only pose in judgment on us in places that we judge ourselves, right? So it is a really hard kind of thing to grapple with.

But if someone holds a mirror up to you and it's somewhat true and reflective of something you feel about yourself, it's going to hurt.

Whereas if someone holds a mirror up to you about something that you don't judge yourself on, it might piss you off. And actually these things annoy me more when it's so unjust and it's so untrue.

But it doesn't hurt because you know the truth and you know how you feel about yourself inside. People can only affect you on things that are unhealed wounds or potentially negative thoughts and feelings that you have about yourself.

That is true.

And so I think a lot of this isn't about feeling judged, it's about making peace with who we are and that's actually something I've had to do a lot over the last couple of years is like make peace with my imperfections.

And I wouldn't say I'm at peace with them actually at all. I think it's probably a never ending journey. But I definitely feel more at peace than I used to, because none of us, it's such a cliche, but like no one's perfect.

We all do things that we don't like when we wake up in the morning or we question about ourselves.

And I think as long as your intention is there to better yourself and you're not consistently repeating bad behavior, because then at that point, I do think it becomes like a self-fulfilling prophecy and therefore you have to sort it out yourself.

But yeah, I think like Miranda, the reason why she felt like that, and the thing is that woman could have been judging her, but it only affected her because she was judging herself.

And so she jumped to that conclusion because she was already thinking it in her head.

Yeah.

So no, I don't really anticipate judgment from others unless it's on things that I know deep down that I've already said and done wrong, at which point I'm basically already outing myself so I can't be outed.

I think it's a fine line between like you allowing for, you know, to be open to others' opinions just in case you have a massive blind spot and you completely being riddled with everyone's opinions of you more than your own.

So, okay, now on to my favorite subject.

Bit calls Carrie. So this is right after he, him and her had an affair.

Sorry, I just love how in your accent it's bit, not big. Bit calls Carrie.

Bit calls Carrie.

Big.

Big. Big.

Big.

Big.

Big calls Carrie.

Big.

I'm just... Big calls Carrie. I don't think he does actually.

Anyway, he calls Carrie and this is about their whole affair blew up in their faces.

He got a divorce with Natasha. Carrie broke up with Aiden and he calls her. And he's like, hey, kiddo, how are you?

I'm thinking about doing a ret wall in my room. What do you think? And it's basically all a construct for him to say, I want to talk to you.

Can we please meet for lunch? And they agreed to meet at the boathouse in Central Park, even though Carrie seemed like very reticent, to do it, so rightly so. What do you think?

Did she do right or wrong by agreeing to see him?

This is so hard because I think it's so easy to make judgment on others when we've literally not walked a single second in their shoes. And this is such a poor way of me to answer this question as well, because I'm not going to say either way.

I think the decisions that we make for our lives are based on experience, feelings and understanding of where we are in that moment.

And so, what other people think could be right and probably is sometimes when you pull an emotion out of it and people approach situations with objectivity rather than emotional subjectivity, it's two very different outcomes.

Of course, I'm going to sit here and say, given the overall set of circumstances, no, she probably shouldn't have gone, because ultimately, it's just you're just repeating a cycle and you're repeating a pattern.

But on the other hand, she went for a reason and her going is for some reason in her mind or emotions or understanding of where she's at, she's not ready to close the door.

So whatever lesson she's being taught through this situation has not been learned. And so she has to learn it in her own time and in her own way.

And I think external people can sit on the outside and be really frustrated because they do think it's really hard when you watch someone that you love in a friendship manner, for example, repeatedly waste energy or hurt themselves on people that

don't deserve them because you love them so much and you can see what their worth is, even when they can't. And so I think it's a pinch between giving people the space to make mistakes and to learn, whilst also protecting your own energy and having

to say to someone, like, I don't agree, so I'm going to have to maybe step a bit out of this situation and love you from afar. And when you need me, I'll be here.

But you have to do what's right for you in this moment, even if I don't think it's right.

This is a perfect segue, because the next scene is her Miranda shopping. And Miranda asks her, like, Hey, do you want to check out the Hopper exhibit on Saturday afternoon? And Carrie says, like, Oh, sorry, I can't.

I'm meeting with my editor. And then she catches herself lying to Miranda, because that's when she's meeting Big.

Big. G.

And she's like, sorry, I lied. I'm actually meeting Big for lunch. And then Miranda completely loses her plot.

And she's like, are you fucking serious? I'm sorry, but like, how can you go back to it? I can't believe it every time.

He fucking hurts you so much. And it feels like he just needs to pick up the phone for you to go back for more. And I'm sorry, but you become this pathetic little woman when you're around him.

And when that happens again, I won't be here for you. So my next question is like, what do you think about that? Because like, I know Miranda's trying to be a good friend, but fuck, that was hard to hear.

Yeah, I think there probably is better ways of positioning it.

Firstly, I think that there's two problems here. One is seeing him is a problem.

I think the second problem, which is, in my opinion, is actually a worse problem, is that you're prioritizing him over your friends, which I think is actually worse than seeing him in the first place, because you can see him.

She asked her to go somewhere.

Yeah, but she had already made the plan.

But I still think the friend should be the priority over him being the provisional plan, the initial plan.

So I think that because he was there before, she's allowed to say, like, I have plans with Big.

So he was already there?

Yeah.

Oh, okay, sorry. I thought the plan was already...

Yeah, yeah, no, no, no.

In the coming days. Okay, fine. And that changes the situation some more.

So I think it's... Miranda has probably had to show a lot of grace, patience and love watching this situation and cycle repeat. And that situation was probably triggering for her because it just, like, was dropped on her in an instant.

She wanted to do something with her friend. And now she can't do it with her friend because her friend is with this guy that has treated her, not just a guy, a guy that has repetitively hurt her.

And Miranda has had to give time and energy, I'm sure, to pull her out of and et cetera, et cetera. So I think there's a way of doing it, basically.

And I don't think Miranda is wrong for feeling the way that she does and being clearly frustrated at the situation. Because as I mentioned previously, it's hard to watch someone that you love harm themselves.

Yeah.

But there is a way of approaching, obviously, those difficult conversations. And I think, like I said, it's just actually more about... There's no point in shaming someone at that point.

Like, Carrie's made the decision and that's what she's going to do. She's going to do it regardless. So there's no point in adding emotion on to that.

But I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with the friend, AKA. Miranda, making a boundary and saying, look, you're going to do whatever you want to do. You're an adult.

You're entirely entitled to do that.

However, if and when this goes wrong again, you're going to have to appreciate that my ability to talk you through and have potentially the same conversations we had last time will be minimal because I don't have the energy to do so.

And I think both are... Like Carrie doing what she wants to do is up to hers. And Miranda being able to save her piece and not have to be part of that circus every time is also absolutely valid.

It is.

It's just like sometimes I feel like what Carrie needs is to be loved at her lowest. And like it did feel like Miranda was like, you know what, if you're going to go back down there, I'm not going to love you.

I suppose I need context on how many times. Because again, it's like first, second, third, okay, fine. If we're talking over five, six, seven times, I personally don't think it is loving someone and to just keep loving them in that.

It's like loving someone in addiction.

You can love them, but at some point, if you're loving them so much, you're almost enabling them because you're giving them comfort in a space that is uncomfortable, but you're providing comfort that allows them to stay in the uncomfortable.

Like that whole thing with families allowing addicts and giving them money.

You don't want to be an enabler.

Exactly.

Yes.

And that's the fine line.

Yes, but I've been working really hard with my therapist just to offer a counter position that sometimes, yes, you cannot help who you have the hots for or you're in love with.

As long as you're trying your best, I think it's okay to expect from your friends to be there. Like, it's not the same thing over and over again.

What do you think is not the same thing?

I mean, in this case, I think Carrie was just like, it's just a lunge. I need to hear him out because he meant a lot to me.

But did it go into something else?

No, but let's get into it.

Okay, okay.

Because they do meet at the boathouse and Carrie and Miranda have not talked and it feels weird and Carrie's just like in her head of like, I know she's one of my best friends. I care about her opinion and like I haven't heard from her.

I thought she would apologize because she was a see you next Tuesday. And eventually Carrie calls her from the boathouse right before she's about to meet him. And she's like, hey, it's me.

I just need to know if you really think that I'm making a mistake. And if you really think that I'm pathetic. And Miranda comes down and she's like, no, actually, what do I know?

What's right for you? And she was like, okay, any last parting pieces of advice? And she's like, just don't kiss him because that seems to be where you get in trouble.

And then Carrie and Big have this scene where they meet up and Big is going to kiss her, but like maybe on the cheek, but like she doesn't want to take a chance because of what Miranda says and they both fall into the pond.

And then because Big lives close by, they go to have a shower at his and like he is trying to have sex with her and she's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Which I think is like 90 percent because of what Miranda said.

So next question that I wanted to ask you is, because Big starts asking her like, was it all my fault about their affair and his marriage to Natasha? And like, I have to say, I actually feel really happy living alone again.

And Carrie laughs and she's just like, of course you do. This is who you are. You want to be single, you are selfish.

And then he gets to start getting cute and Carrie looks and he was like, okay, I should go. And he's like, did you want to stay for a while? And Carrie's like, no.

Why? Because like that red wall, you and I are a good idea on paper, but like it doesn't work in practice and she leaves.

Do you think she handled it okay? Or do you think she could have handled it better?

I think that's a really good way of handling it, to be honest. I think it's fine to acknowledge that in principle, something could work. But when the reality has slapped you in the face multiple times in the past, it's probably going to again.

And again, I think we can all get into spaces where we can romanticize the idea of someone. But like let's look at the facts. Sadly, you have to look at the facts.

You cannot build emotional attachment to someone based on their potential. Because that's not real. Even if all that potential is there, it's not.

It's not happening in your reality now.

Why are you looking at me?

Who else am I supposed to look at? It's not happening. Do you know what I mean?

So again, from watching the show, they've got incredible chemistry, there's potential, he's got lots of really nice traits. But it just doesn't work. So at some point, you either break the cycle or you just accept that you're going to be in it.

And I was speaking to a friend about this earlier, because I think this happens with relationships a lot, that people get into cycles of all sorts.

And after it's happened for a certain amount of time, I honestly think you can explain something to someone a certain amount of times, and they either listen or they don't. And if they don't, you've got one of two choices.

You either leave, or you accept the cycle and make peace within that. Because that is the only options. There isn't any other negotiation to be had.

If you've told someone five, six, seven, eight times, these are my expectations, this is what I need from you, this is who I am. And they can't fulfill that for whatever reason. Doesn't mean they're a bad person, doesn't mean they're an awful person.

There's just that mismatch. At some point, you have to go, okay, I want to be with this person, so I'm going to have to accept that I'm not going to get these things. And I'm just going to have to literally accept it and get on within this.

Or you go, actually, this is a deal breaker for me. I'm not happy. I'm going to love you, but I'm going to have to leave you.

And I'm going to have to move on with my life because this isn't fulfilling me. And so I think in that moment, I think she's done the right thing because I think what it does is it gives her the power back. She's changing up the narrative.

And by changing up the narrative, you're shifting the dynamic and you're breaking out of bad habits.

So it doesn't mean no forever, but it means no, right now, I'm not going to fall back into this pattern with you because if this is meant to be, it will be, but not in this way.

Yeah. I like that because when I watched that, I was like, she's still trying to deliver the zinger and the very writer-written one-liner, so she's still performing for him because she still wants his approval. But yeah, not now, maybe later.

Yeah.

But that's basically the end of the episode is with Samantha finally making peas with trans women by inviting them to a party in her rooftop.

And again, they are digging hard at these stereotypes. But they make peas, they have fun, they have tartinis.

At least it's left on a relatively positive note.

Yeah. But they know that episode is problematic. Yeah.

So maybe we can jump on to the advice of the girls. So for Carrie, do you think, maybe because I was going to ask you, do you think she should have ignored Big? Do you think he's a case of like block him?

I am, yes.

Let me tell you why. Not because necessarily about him.

Yeah.

I am a massive believer in, if someone is meant for you, there shouldn't be that many problems.

Yeah.

So it's not about him or his behavior or her or her behavior. I do really believe that if something is meant for you, it has to bring you peace and it has to bring you something positive to your life.

And if it's not doing that, it's clearly not in alignment with you.

Yeah.

And like I said, he may have been in alignment for her in five years time when he got his single selfish era out. And I actually don't think that's a terrible thing.

I think he's villainized for that and he's villainized for it because he's trying to play off too.

Yeah.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being selfish and being single and wanting to do what you want.

As long as you're straightforward.

As long as you leave other people to what they need and what they want outside of that. So yeah, my advice for her would just be like, if it's meant for you in that moment, it wouldn't be that hard. So accept it for what it is.

Focus on yourself, move forward. And if it's meant for you, it will come back around when it's right for you. And if not, easier said than done, but accept that then it's just not for you.

I truly believe like what is meant for you won't pass you by.

Yeah.

And you shouldn't have to fight so hard for something like that.

Honestly, I agree. But girl, okay. So for Miranda, how do you think that she could have been a better friend to Carrie?

Like draw a boundary, maybe. Give advice.

Like I said, the delivery. I think delivery is everything. In most of the things that we all walk through in life, it's like it's not what you say, it's how you say it.

Most stickler for this as well, like I grew up in deep South Somerset, like every other word is a swear word. Sometimes I've got a really brash accent. And when I'm passionate about something, my voice gets louder.

And so sometimes that can come across as like me being like hostile or angry and I can be pulled out on it and be like, what? Like, no way, I'm actually like, don't feel that emotion at all.

But I have to acknowledge how it is received by the other person.

And so yeah, I think what she was saying wasn't necessary, the sentiment of what she was saying and the premise of why she was saying, I don't think is wrong because I think she's coming from a place of loving and caring about your friend and not

wanting to see them repeat patterns that hurt them. But again, I just think it's the delivery, it's the tone, and it's how you angle yourself in that moment could have been a lot better.

Fair. OK, Samantha, because they actually get into this fight where she calls the police. She tries to have a conversation with them.

They seem to get it. It happens again. She calls the police and them, they don't listen.

She throws a bucket of water on them. Then they throw eggs at her and then she throws the party. Do you think she should have thrown the party sooner?

Probably, but I would have rung the police as well.

So the right thing to do is to probably make peace and just like laugh it off, expect that they will go away at some point or throw the party. But I'm petty and that would really annoy me as well. Like it's got nothing to do with me being trans.

Anyone outside my window doing that is actually, I don't know, because I used to have this crack head that I used to like walk up and down my street all the time shouting taxi.

Oh my God, yeah.

Well, we actually see her all the time now and we call her taxi, like her a lot. And it was like three or four a.m. at taxi.

I just had to accept it for what it is. Just embrace the moment. Because I think sometimes you can get like really worked up by these little things.

And actually, when you take a step back, like, come on, is it really that life ruining? Like there's other things we can put in our energy into.

If you live in New York or London, I've just invested. You just invest in like really good noise-canceling headphones.

Or if you can't beat them, join them.

Totally.

I should have just gone out and started shouting Uber. She could have been taxi and I could have been Uber.

I got you, girl. Where are you going to go? Okay.

And finally, Charlotte, we didn't cover her, but like she decided to separate from Trey. And then Trey comes knocking at her door at like midnight because he saw her light on.

And they have sex because he finally can get it up now that they're not married, engaged, or not. Do you think that this is hope or do you think that this is still doomed? Like if this boy can only get it up when there's no commitment?

I'm going to preface this by saying you're asking a lesbian this question.

Yeah, but let's talk about erectile dysfunction.

Not something I've ever experienced and hope to never experience in my life.

And I've never known a lesbian that suffered with finger dysfunction. Another trick for the gays.

Fair.

And it is pride.

It seems to me that this is clearly a very deep psychological problem or something that he's got, whether it comes down to commitment, mummy issues, overwhelm and clearly by feeling like he has freedom or he's chasing something, arouses him.

So ultimately, it's either intense therapy or it's a physiological problem.

Yeah.

And either of those, well, again, I'm not having to interest myself with this. Thank God. If I were, again, I think like do the work and then come back to me.

Yeah.

Fair. By himself. Okay.

Because my advice was like, okay, let's build from here.

No, I don't think, I think sometimes people need to be left.

Yeah.

And they need to work through things in their own time and their own space. I think you can help from afar. You can still be friends, but this is what I mean.

It doesn't have to be this hard cut. Okay. Get out of my life.

Sort yourself up. I think you can step out of it and say, look, the romance element is not right.

Yeah.

So I will be here for you, but you need to work on this. And then once it's worked on, if we're still in alignment in all the other ways and we can come back together, great. If not, let's make peace again.

Wasn't meant to be. Thank you for the time and the period that you had in my life. I thank you for the things that you brought to me and the lessons.

And I will let you go with love.

Fair. Okay. I like that.

And your reptile dysfunction.

I mean, they can get toys, but yeah, anyway.

Well, yeah, I'm a big advocate for that, obviously.

But like, I'm just trying to now picture a man with a double penis once down and once that's not... I mean, obviously, I'm not attracted to men, so it's all disgusting to me. But I feel like even as a straight woman, like, come on.

Yeah, fair enough.

It shouldn't be that hard.

It shouldn't be that hard.

But that's the episode.

I'd love for you to tell our listeners what you've been up to, where they can find you, what you're excited about. Because I know there's a lot.

So much. Lesbian Supper Club continues to go from strength to strength. We've obviously done so many amazing events in different locations this year.

It's something that we continue to do. The podcast continues to grow and the community element and space within that continues to grow. We do have some really incredible things on the cards, which I'm not going to spill just yet.

But I think the next three to four months are going to be pretty transformative for the brand. And so I'm really looking forward to that.

And then as I've spoken about on Lesbian Supper Club, I will also be launching my own podcast, which is going to be about the intersectionality between mental health and extreme sports.

And this is a project that I've actually been working on for two years now, on my own, in my head, on paper as well. But now I'm in a space where I'm working with some incredible people on it.

And I think that it's all come together and it's coming together in the best possible way. And I hope the next few months on that as well are also going to be pretty big. And I'm going to be able to kick it out of the nest and see if it flies.

And I'm really excited about it. Like, I'm excited about bringing something to life that actually came to me in a time when I was really struggling.

And now to actually be able to have to bring it to fruition through all of the darkness that kind of founded it is a pretty incredible thing. It's terrifying at the same time because it's so vulnerable.

I'm reminded every time that I put something out there on it and with it that the people that message me and write me about it, it does genuinely make me feel like I'm doing the right thing for the right reasons.

And that is a huge positive for me to keep going and trust myself and trust the journey. So yeah, so much stuff. And you can find Lesbian Supper Club at Lesbian Supper Club Pod on Instagram, across Apple, Spotify, anywhere that you get your podcasts.

And my personal page is at underscore scarlettjp and I haven't yet released the name and the socials of the new podcast. But if you follow me, you'll see it soon.

Amazing. Well, thank you very much Scarlett.

Thank you very much for having me. You've made me think about lots of things on this Friday afternoon. Now I'm going to go and do the thing that makes me look in the mirror, which is have a drink.

And I'm not going to let anyone judge me for it.

Good. Good. I'm also going to have a drink because God forbid, I have any more technical difficulties today.

It's a Friday in June.

Yes.

What else would we be doing in London?

Nothing else.

I'll talk to you soon. Bye. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of And Just Like That We Found Therapy.

If you loved it, follow the podcast, leave a five-star review, and send this episode to somebody who needs it. It really helps the show. And don't forget about our new segment this season, He's Not Your Mr.

Big. If you have a love dilemma you want answered by one of our in-house experts, you can now submit directly through the form on my website. The link is in the show notes.

Or, if you prefer to keep it personal, slide into my DMs on Instagram at WeFoundTherapyPod. See you at our next therapy session. I love y'all.

Bye.