Relationship Karma, Baby Steps to Cheating & Why Natasha's Speech Was the Most Elegant Takedown in the Show's History — S3E17 with Lora Cheadle

About This Episode

In Season 3 episode seventeen of And Just Like That… We Found Therapy, host Isabel MV is joined by betrayal recovery expert, attorney, certified hypnotherapist and TEDx speaker Lora Cheadle to unpack Sex and the City's "What Goes Around Comes Around." It's the episode where Charlotte kisses the gardener, Carrie stalks Natasha to a restaurant and gets the most elegant dressing-down in the show's history, Miranda starts dating a detective so handsome she reaches for liquid courage, and Samantha sleeps with a virgin who promptly becomes very, very attached.

What We Cover

• Why nobody sets out to cheat — and how every affair is built from a series of baby steps that each feel justifiable in the moment

• The gardener problem: is it okay to be attracted to someone else when you're committed, and when does sharing that become the safer option?

• Natasha leaving the restaurant without a word: why that was a boundary, not contempt — and why Carrie made it about herself

• Is there such a thing as relationship karma? Lora's answer: it's internal, not external — we create our own through what we believe we deserve

• Why so many betrayed partners stay silent for so long: the practicalities, the self-doubt and the shame of looking crazy

• Lora's personal story: uncovering her husband's 15-year affair, what she learned, and why eight years later they are genuinely happy in a new relationship

• The double standard women face around cheating — whether they stayed, left, or were the other woman

• Miranda reaching for alcohol because she can't believe a handsome man actually chose her: what that self-sabotage is really protecting

• How to catch yourself before a flirtation becomes a kiss becomes a line you can't uncross

• What to do when you have a clingy lover: why the first step is finding the part of you that actually likes it

• Natasha's famous "you've ruined my lunch" speech: why it proves she has healed and Carrie hasn't

• How to make peace with yourself if you were the other woman — without needing the wife's forgiveness to get there

About Our Guest

Lora Cheadle is a betrayal recovery expert, certified hypnotherapist, attorney, TEDx speaker and author. After uncovering her husband's 15-year affair, she turned her experience into a career helping high-achieving women reclaim their identity, power and joy. Download her free Betrayal Recovery Guide at betrayalrecoveryguide.com and find everything else at loracheadle.com. All links in the show notes.

Transcript

Welcome back, Boundary Babes.

This week, I am joined by Lora Cheadle, and you should totally check out the clips or the video on YouTube at We Found Therapy Pod, because not only is Lora stunning, but she looks like Melon Ackerman and Meredith Marks had a baby.

Lora and I dissect how to get ahead of what may end up being an affair, how to clean up your relationship karma, if it even exists, and how to have the tough conversations with your partner that get you to relationship nirvana.

I hope you guys enjoy it. I'll see you on the other side. I love y'all.

Bye. Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode of And Just Like That We Found Therapy. I am your host, this is the MV, and I am delighted to be joined today by Lora Cheadle.

She is a qualified attorney, certified hypnotherapist, betrayal recovery expert, TEDx speaker, and author. She also hosts the podcast Blonde, and her history is as powerful as her work.

After uncovering her husband's 15-year affair, she turned her pain to purpose, dedicating her career to helping high-achieving women reclaim their identity, power, and joy. Welcome, Lora.

Thank you. I'm really looking forward to our conversation.

Me too, because Lora is here today to unpack with me S3E17 of Sex and the City, What Goes Around Comes Around, where it's all about karma, but there is a lot of cheating. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. There's a lot.

The episode opens up with Charlotte and Trey in the countryside, and we get introduced to this very white picket fence, happy ending of Charlotte, where everything looks so perfect, until we see that Charlotte runs into the gardener who is very, very

hot, and she gets a bit flustered. My first question to you, I guess it's baby steps of the decisions we make along the line that maybe end in cheating.

What do you think about somebody thirsting after somebody else physically so much when you're committed?

I'm going to turn that right back to what you said. It's those baby steps along the way, and that's what's so important. We will be attracted to people.

You know what I'm saying? Our whole lives, we will be attracted to people, whether it's somebody that is right there in front of us, or it's somebody that we see in the media. That's not something we can stop or control.

And I don't really think there's anything wrong with that either. It's just acknowledging it and noticing this is what I'm feeling. And if you're committed to somebody, truly the safest thing to do is to share that.

You know, let somebody know, I'm really, whoa, this gardener has got me going. This is amazing. Every time I see them, I just want to get some.

And to speak into it instead of pushing it down, because it's when we push it down that it becomes dangerous.

That is very interesting because Charlotte obviously shares it, but she shares it with her girlfriends, not with Trey. But I'm very curious, what do you think if maybe on the other side of that conversation, your partner gets very jealous?

It's like, what do you mean? We're firing that gardener. You're never to look at him again, and we're going to get the fattest, ugliest gardener out there in Connecticut.

Exactly.

Jealousy is deep-seated, and there's usually something behind the jealousy. And if we can start talking into that, you know, are you really afraid that I would do something?

Is there something in my behavior that has really caused you to think that this would happen? Because that means we need to address that.

Fair enough. Yeah. It feels great to be in this conversation with a grown-up and not with a boyfriend.

Okay. But Charlotte goes on. We switch to the next scene, which is the girls at lunch.

And Charlotte is just like, I just don't know what it is. He smells of like dirt and sweat. And like, I'm just so turned on by him.

And like, they're having this moment where she's talking about how hot the gardener makes her when suddenly Natasha walks in with a girlfriend. And they clock that it's Carrie and her girlfriends. And Natasha whispers something to her girlfriend.

They turn around. They give them the death stare. Turn around and leave.

And then Carrie is like, Oh, my God, did you see that? I can't believe somebody in New York could hate me this much. The contempt she has for me.

I'm very curious to know, what do you think about the situation on how Carrie reacts to Natasha leaving?

I think Carrie is actually fairly self-centered there. It's not that, right? It's not that Natasha really hates her that much.

It's that she has boundaries and she's getting out of the situation. It doesn't matter what situation we're in when we have a boundary, we remove ourselves. And that's what Natasha did.

It's like, Hey, I don't want to be here. I'm leaving. Natasha was very much the grown up and Carrie was making it about her when it really wasn't about her.

Yeah.

But after that, Carrie is so self-absorbed with how victim she feels about how Natasha reacted to her, that she gets lost in the middle of Soho and she gets mugged.

And I honestly, the writers write her so well and being so self-absorbed and Sarah Jessica Parker has excellent comedic timing. She bursts into a hairdresser, nail salon, whatever. And she's like, I got mugged.

And nobody blinks twice. But she calls Miranda to help her with Detective Stevens, who gets mitten with Miranda. And I'm very curious here because he kind of flirts with her, does a little lawyer joke and says he appreciates humor in a lawyer.

I'm curious to know how you feel about that because I've seen your work. I think you're pretty fun and funny. But the detective asked for her card and Miranda is just like, oh, I guess he just wants free legal advice.

That's always how it is. What do you think that's going on in Miranda's head when she's putting herself down because a good looking man is interested in her?

You're right. I just have to say first, the writing is fantastic in how that all plays. Because it just shows she's been through a lot with a lot of relationships.

And she doesn't trust that she really can be chosen by a good looking man. She doesn't trust that this could really happen to her.

And what I love about it is it shows how we spin those stories in our head, whether it's a positive story or a negative story. We play that story in my head. I'm sure this is what it's about.

I'm sure that this is not what it's about. And again, we make meaning in something that usually it's not the meaning that was originally intended.

Yeah. I have to say, though, I do that a lot, especially when I have an audience, because it almost feels like a protection mechanism where if I reject myself first, I won't get rejected. Yes.

Yeah.

And it feels like I need to reassure my audience that I would never think that they're into me, so don't worry.

I've already squashed it, so don't ask again. Yeah.

Yeah. It's protective, yes. And then also a little bit under that is kind of that seeking validation, that seeking reassurance.

Because when we do that, we do want somebody to say, oh, no, no, no, no. I know who you are. I know that about you.

You're amazing. That wouldn't... You know what I'm saying?

It's like we're seeking that validation because we're not stable in ourselves. We can't just know, yep, this is who I am. This is what I get.

This is what's going on. This is what I... And yeah, I'm fine.

Yeah.

But interestingly, because you're saying that it probably comes from Miranda having very bad relationship experiences and this could never happen to her because obviously every single relationship she's had has been with a much less good looking man

and not good. But Carrie uses it to Miranda's favor and she's like, well, you know what? This may be your relationship karma. You've gone on so many bad days that now, boom, boom, boom, you hit the cosmic jackpot and you get a hunk.

Enjoy. She also goes into it as she's writing the column for the week saying that, sometimes if we behave so badly in our previous relationship, are we destined to be treated as badly by our partners in the future one?

Is there such a thing as relationship karma? That is my next question to you. Do you believe that there is the relationship karma?

Yes and no.

I do believe that relationships are mirrors. I don't believe there is an external force punishing us or giving us things that we love. It's not external, it's internal.

It's our own internal sense of, Oh God, I did this and I don't deserve it. We attract and those relationships are mirrors. And when we're putting out, I'm not worthy.

Or when we're putting out, I finally deserve this. We get what we are putting out. So we create our own karma in those situations.

So in a way, it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy where you're putting out.

I love that because that makes a lot of sense and that brings a lot of like the manifesting karma into the same level.

But in the next scene, Samantha and Carrie are going to a party because Samantha is having this crazy storyline where they keep calling her line asking for Sam Jones. And apparently there's this party and she's Sam Jones, but not that Sam Jones.

And she comes to this crazy conclusion that maybe the universe is telling her that this Sam Jones is somebody fabulous that she needs to meet. So she convinces Carrie to go to this party.

And on the way, Samantha tells Carrie, I heard from a little bird at Ralph Lauren that Natasha left Mr. Big. And of course Carrie makes it about her.

I can't believe I did that to their marriage and oh my God, and like she must hate me so much. Samantha says it probably wouldn't have worked out anyway, which is probably true.

But in the next scene, Charlotte is having a very vivid, very wet dream with the gardener. And Trey wakes her up and is like, Oh baby, like you're having a nightmare. You're like sweaty and it's so hot.

Bless you. Again, this is another one of like those little baby steps that you take when making a decision of staring away from maybe who you're committed and somebody who activates you so much. What do you think about this dream that Charlotte has?

And like, again, do you think that maybe that's an opportunity for her to share it with Trey?

That's a delicate thing because yes, we can use fantasy, any kind of fantasy to enrich our lives. And you were just talking about manifestation.

When we see ourselves in a better place, when we see ourselves with million dollar checks coming in the mail, that's fantasy. So we can and should use fantasy. So it gets a little fuzzy when there's another person involved.

And again, is she like using this gardener in an abusive way? Or is this something she can share with Trey? You know, like, oh, baby, this is so hot.

And I had this dream. This is amazing. And, you know, ravaged me because again, we can use that fantasy to our benefit.

It matters that we're communicating and it matters that we're honest in it.

Yeah.

12:34

Crossing the Line

But, you know, alas, Charlotte is not honest in it. They go back to Connecticut that weekend and she goes and starts talking to the gardener and very actively starts flirting with the gardener. And they end up kissing.

Sister-in-law sees it. And then she outs her at cocktail hour.

Do you think that this is kind of like that, obviously accelerated for show purposes, but like every little decision that you make that steers away from your partner may get you closer to crossing the line that you never thought that you would cross?

Yes. Yes. Because, I mean, I work with so many people on all sides of infidelity.

Nobody sets up and says, I'm going to cheat today. Nobody does that. It's, well, I'm going to flirt.

And then you create this story, well, my partner's not really understanding me. And then, well, we're just going to have coffee. And then, oh, it's okay, we're just going to have drinks.

And then it's okay, it's just a kiss. We're always giving ourselves the story that it's okay because, it's okay because. And then when we finally do cheat, it doesn't even feel like we're doing much because it's just the next logical step.

Of course.

So it's all gradual. Okay. Very interesting.

Then Miranda's on her second date with Detective Stevens, who looks like a working class jurisclunian in the best kind of way.

And she starts to become very self-conscious, as she perceives that everyone in the restaurant is clocking how hot he is, lusting after him. And she gets really in her head. So she starts drinking, reaching out for liquid courage.

What do you think about her reaching for alcohol to make herself feel aggrandized or up to the same level as Detective Stevens?

We all reach for something. You know, whether it's alcohol, whether it's sugar, whether it's our best friend, whether it's a new jacket or a sexy pair of shoes. Like, we all reach for something.

But it's that awareness that I'm reaching for this because I feel so bad inside and in the moment, I need something external to prop me up. Yeah, so yeah, her awareness, I'm feeling really bad, I need this. Again, this is internal.

If it could have been externalized, I'm feeling really bad, then something else possibly could have been done. Or she might still have chosen to reach for the liquid courage, but just with a more higher level of awareness.

But yeah, that's what I'm doing. That's okay because I need it right now.

I'm very curious though, do you think that if this relationship were to flourish, it'd be highly likely that maybe Miranda were to cheat on him because of how insecure she's feeling in the relationship?

Yes. Yes. I think she would self-sabotage it.

I think she would because when we go in, when we're insecure, we got hyper alert and we start looking for all of the things around us to confirm our beliefs.

So if her belief is, he's too hot for me, absolutely everything in the relationship that confirms that story she's going to notice.

And then it's going to make her feel so bad about herself, and I might as well cheat because he's going to leave me anyway.

Oh, that is so heartbreaking. But yeah, I see it. Okay.

We're back in Connecticut and Charlotte goes to speak to Trey because the sister-in-law did out her at cocktail hour. So Trey knows that she's kissed the gardener, and she's very sweet and she's like, Trey, will you please come inside?

What are you doing? And Trey, I'm sorry, he looks very hot in his Scottish boxers, improving his serve. He's like, no, I'm improving my serve.

And she's like, come on, I'm so sorry. What I did was unacceptable. Please come to bed.

And Trey says, listen, I obviously cannot meet your needs, but no marriage is perfect. And maybe I can look the other way. And, you know, we can live together and have separate lives, but be happy.

And Charlotte says, I don't want that. I want a husband that will grab me and make me not want to kiss the gardener. I'm very curious to know because Trey says no.

He can insist in like presenting as a perfect couple, but obviously if you need to get your kicks, feel free to do it. I will look the other way. And Charlotte says, I think that when we go back to the city, we should separate.

What do you think about this conversation?

It's painful. It's painful. And I think the reason that it's so painful is, Trey is really saying to her, I don't want to do the work.

I don't want to explore what you need from me. I don't want to change who I am. And I don't want to know the real you.

I just want each of us to put on this facade and to keep going. And it's such really a rejection of Charlotte's soul. And that's what's so painful about it.

Yeah, he's not even looking at her while she's pouring her heart out.

It's so upsetting.

Yeah.

No matter how glossy his abs were looking in the scene.

After that, Carrie has called Natasha seven times. And Natasha is not returning her calls. There's the word put to all her assistants to not put her through.

So Carrie asks Sam to ask her assistant to find out from Natasha's assistant where she's having lunch.

And she shows up in this epically famous Christian Dürer dress by Galeano, looking honestly so good, sits herself down and she grabs the water from Natasha and says, can I have a sip of this?

And then she just takes it away and she's like, listen, I want you to know that I wanted to come down here to say that I'm so sorry. I never intended for any of that to happen. If I could take her all back, I would, but I am so sorry.

And then Natasha says, are you through? And she's like, yes, thank you very much. And she's about to leave.

And that's just like, now it's my turn. And Natasha has this beautiful speech. And I think the writers were very conscious to write Carrie in a bad way.

And Natasha is so elegant. And she says, I'm sorry Big came to Paris and he fell in love with me. I'm sorry we got married.

I'm sorry I ignore the fact that he was cheating on me with you for so long. I'm sorry that I fell down the stairs.

I'm sorry that no matter how many painful teeth surgeries I get through, this tooth is like different color than that tooth, blah, blah, blah. But most sorry I am the fact that not only have you ruined my marriage, you've ruined my lunch.

Very curious to know, what do you think, especially about Natasha's speech, but if you have any comments on Carrie's, honestly, lack of self-awareness.

Also, the floor is yours. Right. We could unpack this for like 90 minutes because there's so much there.

It's so beautifully done because Carrie is a boundary crosser and she doesn't have boundaries. And it's just so indicative of who she is. And you're right, the lack of self-awareness, but also that lack of herself.

I mean, it's a different level of self-awareness. It's a lack of who she really is as a person because she's better than that. And it just shows her fear, her insecurity, her smallness that she has to do this.

And Natasha is so strong. And I like that she says, as long as you've done it, now it's my turn. Because that is her stepping into her power.

I would never have degraded myself to chase you down. But if we're going to play this game, I'm also not going to stay quiet. I'm going to stay fully myself.

Not over large, not dragon lady, but I'm going to tell you clearly what I think. And it is a beautiful speech. And she is in her power.

And what I love about it when she says, you've ruined my lunch, is to me, it shows that she has moved on. Carrie is not in her mind all day, every day, the way Natasha is in Carrie's mind every day. Natasha has healed, Carrie hasn't.

And Carrie has inserted herself into this conversation, into this lunch, and she's ruined her lunch. Not her day, not her week, her lunch.

Yeah, honestly, it was such an elegant way to do it.

I wanted to draw attention to one thing she said, because she said, I'm sorry he cheated on me with you, and I'm sorry that I ignored it or, you know, make it look like I wasn't aware for as long as I did.

How common do you think that is, and what do you think goes on in the wise mind?

Yeah, it's very common. It's very common. I will tell you again from my personal experience, as well as from the people that I've worked with.

The first thing is, you don't believe it. And you are the one that feels crazy. Am I thinking something is going on?

Gosh, I don't know. And that's a big accusation to throw at somebody. So first and foremost, you're worried about yourself looking crazy.

You're worrying about how can this be? Then there's that level of what does this mean? And what do I do about it?

And most of us have busy lives. We have jobs, we have families, we have friends. It's not like we can just scrap everything and go figure it out in this moment.

So that's why people just let it ride for so long, because they're like, I don't know what to do. Am I going to get a divorce? Do I need to change the titles on some things first?

Do I need to apply for a credit card? Oh my gosh, maybe I need to, if I've been staying home for a while, renew my teaching license or whatever it is, and start preparing for my future. I'm not going to rock the boat until I'm ready to swim.

So interesting, because I have been doing a lot of listening also to Stair Perrell who talks a lot about cheating.

And I think there's also this shame put on the woman, even if you're the one that's been cheated on, if you decide to stay, which is a valid option.

And if you don't mind if I ask you in your personal experience, because obviously a 15 year affair sounds huge. Like, yeah, like a whole teenager of a relationship.

What was your thought process to uncovering that, making that decision, what decision felt right for you, and maybe how much of the outside perception influenced that decision?

Yeah, and yes, I will be completely candid about anything. So feel free to push or dig or anything.

Thank you.

Yeah, just putting that out there. Yes, my husband cheated for 15 freaking years. And when I first found that out, I mean, obviously it was devastating in so many different ways, but it was like, I have to be done.

There is no other option. He doesn't want me, I have to be done. And yes, I went into that shame place.

I'm not pretty enough. I'm not smart enough. I wasn't good enough in bed.

I wasn't a good like everything became about me. And then as I started learning about it and understanding what was really going on, I don't want to say it made it OK, but it changed the narrative. He had a 15 year affair.

They saw each other in person seven times in those 15 years.

Wow.

Yeah, that's a different story. He would reach out whenever he was in pain. Oh, was there love there?

No, he was really using her for an ego boost. Eww. You know, no, it makes me not like you that you would do that.

But it's a different story. Throughout the journey, I kept thinking, I want to tune in to what I want and what I deserve. And that's what I want to lean into.

And if he chooses to rise to meet me by doing some way long overdue therapy, because he's a former foster child, he has a severe trauma background. If he wants to do this, hey, I'm happy in my life.

I will stay here and see what kind of work he does and see where it goes. I don't need to leave. I'm not faking it.

I will never fake anything ever again. But I can wait and take care of myself and see what happens. And for the record, it's been eight years since I found out.

He's done deep trauma work. We are both very different people. And yes, we are back together.

And we're both really happy because it's a new relationship.

I think that's amazing because there's not that many stories that are celebrated of women who find the happiness again within a relationship. Because I think it's so hard when you're so long without one person.

And now less so, but even I grew up with the feeling that my romantic partner had to be everything to me. I have so much pressure.

Yes. Yes. It's so much pressure and it's so hard and relationships do evolve.

And sometimes we have good years and sometimes we have bad years. And it's how can I keep my own center, meet my own needs? Yeah, that's what matters.

Thank you for sharing that, Lora.

That's really special. I'm wondering your advice for the girls. I sent you some homework.

I'm going to change a few things.

We'll flow with it.

Yes. For Carrie, if you are in the situation where you're the other woman, how do you make peace with yourself?

Maybe after even you've righted that wrong and you're out of the affair, how do you make peace with that and not maybe stock your ex-boyfriends or affair's ex-wife to the level that she did to get to that piece?

And I'm not sure if she really had that piece because I don't think it was the stocking and all of that that gave her that piece. My advice for the person who cheated is really leaning into that self-love and that self-compassion.

You made a mistake and it's okay. You were where you were at the time. You did the best that you could or maybe you didn't.

But how can you continue to love yourself? How can you have your own back? How can you not use other people to make you feel better?

You don't need to talk to the wife. You don't need to talk to the person you had an affair with. How can you do for yourself what you are constantly asking other people to do for you?

Because it's about the relationship with you and you.

Okay, I love that. Then for Charlotte, as we were having this conversation, I know that she was placed in a very difficult position with Trey because Trey refused to talk about his problem.

But I'm wondering maybe if you find yourself, as we were saying, taking baby steps, that you know you are walking a very thin line.

When do you catch yourself to make sure that you don't get so close at the next step that is crossing that boundary and cheating feels like such a small step? How do you think that you can catch it early?

To recognize I have needs and I can ask for what I want and I can advocate on my own behalf. That's not saying my partner will meet my needs, but to be able to continually speak things.

I want, I need more flirtation to be who you want to be, to open that part up to your partner and to see if they will meet you. And if they can't, maybe that's another decision you need to make along the way.

But being more fully herself in the relationship is the first place to start.

I love that. Because I think, you know, she didn't fully ask. And that's when maybe you get some bit more of back and forth in a relationship.

When you feel like, but I didn't say everything that I wanted to say. I didn't ask for all the things that I needed.

Okay, for Miranda, what do you think is a good way to cultivate that self-confidence when you're with someone that you consider that is more attractive than you by a mile without reaching for alcohol, a friend, a purse, money, whatever it is that we

I think hers is actually the most difficult piece of advice.

And I think it's a combination of things. First, affirming for yourself. I am worthy.

I am smart. I am beautiful. So much of her identity was around smart.

She's a lawyer. It's smart, smart, smart. She couldn't see that she was beautiful too.

I can be more. And just really reminding herself of that. And then on the flip side, he chose me.

He's here now. He chose me. But there's a lot of deep self-worth around that.

And for her specifically, I'd be like, you are so much more than your brain.

Yeah. It's such a shame because it goes to show how little on dating she's done with herself. Like, you know, just take yourself on a date, enjoy yourself.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay. For Samantha, I, because obviously we go on to this crazy ride where she tells Carrie, do you think that this is a karmic message saying, I should sleep with this virgin and give him the great first time that I didn't have.

And she ends up sleeping with him and then he goes crazy. Maybe what is the advice that you have to give someone that ends up with a very clingy lover?

There's like four things I want to say all at the same time here. I think when somebody has a clingy lover, you have to look at yourself and say, actually what part of me is happy with this? What part of me really actually kind of likes this?

Which feels like the opposite, you know what I mean? Because we know the part of me that doesn't like it, but what is the part of me that kind of wants it? Oh, I feel needed.

I feel to actually work with that part first. And when you again can say like, okay, there is a part of me that really loves you being clingy. When you can start with the problem, then it's easier to put the boundary in place.

There's a part of me that just wants to mesh with you and yes, this is amazing. However, I'm busy till Friday.

No phone calls till Friday, because when we're pushing the boundaries first, without the acknowledgement that there is at least one teeny little part of me that feels kind of, ooh, happy that this happened, it makes our boundaries not as firm.

Okay, and then finally, it does, it does. But poor guy, poor Sam Jones.

Oh, I know, I know.

Finally, for Natasha, I know that she carried herself with a lot of elegance, but obviously she was still angry.

What do you think is some advice that you could give someone that is going through a very painful process, even if like she's by the looks of it moving on, but like what advice can you give to somebody that is going through the painful process of

Feel your feelings.

There is no award for healing faster or for looking pulled together. Feel grief, feel rage, ugly cry, scream, write letters and burn them. Take a like a ziplock bag with ice and bash it against the shower wall.

Like get, you know what I mean? Get physical because when we pretend, I've got this, I've got this, it royals up inside of us and it will come out sideways. So get it all out now.

Okay.

Well, amazing, Laura. That was the episode. Thank you so much.

I would love for you to tell our listeners where to find you, what you're working on, what you're excited about right now.

I'm excited about so many different things. You can find me at my website and that's lauracheadle.com. And I spell it L-O-R-A.

If you have gone through any sort of betrayal, I really highly encourage you to download my betrayal recovery guide. You can get that at betrayalrecoveryguide.com.

It's got spiritual messages, energetic practices to get the rage out, journal prompts, a whole lot of good stuff. So do that.

I checked it out. And I have to say that when something like that can feel very overwhelming, I found it like, luckily, I'm not going through that right now.

But like I think it's a very good first step of, hey, it's overwhelming, but this is the guy. Right.

Just do this one thing. And then tomorrow, do this one thing. Yeah, because we think we're going to solve it all.

I'm going to figure it out and get my finances. And no, you're not. Regulate you first.

Yeah, regulate. What I'm really excited about is I am making it my mission to really talk about betrayal, to take the shame and the stigma away, because it's something that happens to so many of us.

And like you said earlier, we think it's about us and it's not. And the more we talk about it and the more lights we shine on it, the easier it becomes. And honestly, the less likely people are to cheat when we understand what it's really about.

Yeah, I am learning so much by doing this in this season.

And something that blew my mind and I had never thought about it like this. When Carrie's cheating, there's a lot that gets brought up around, you know, sisterhood code. That like, how could you do this to the other woman?

Because we have, most of us have been there, most of us have been cheated on. And that doesn't get brought up with men. Do you come across that in your line of work where women get double judged?

Like, if we are cheated on, if we stay, if we leave, if we are part of the cheating, how could you, sisterhood, the other woman?

We can never win. And I think knowing that, you know, going in, whatever position we're in, we can't win and we will be blamed. So that's why it makes it so important that we know our own center.

And we can be like, yeah, this is who I am and this is what I'm doing. And if you judge me, you sure can. But it doesn't change who I am.

Yeah.

Well, thank you so much, Lora. This has been so enjoyable. I'll plug all of your information in the show notes so that people can find you.

Thank you.

I've really enjoyed it too.

Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of And Just Like That We Found Therapy. If you loved it, follow the podcast, leave a five-star review and send this episode to somebody who needs it. It really helps the show.

And don't forget about our new segment this season, He's Not Your Mr. Big. If you have a love dilemma you want answered by one of our in-house experts, you can now submit directly through the form of my website.

The link is in the show notes. Or if you prefer to keep it personal, slide in to my DMs on Instagram at WeFoundTherapyPod. See you at our next therapy session.

I love y'all. Bye!