Self-Worth, Modelizers & the Trap of External Validation — Episode 2 with Elodie, Sex Therapist

About This Episode

In episode two of And Just Like That… We Found Therapy, host Isabel MV sits down with sex therapist and sexological body worker Elodie to unpack Sex and the City's "Models and Mortals." They explore why men chase models, why women bond over self-deprecation, and how the push-and-pull of someone like Mr. Big can spiral into emotional dependency — and what it might actually signal about narcissistic behaviour.

What We Cover

• Why men become "modelizers" — and what it really says about their self-image

• The oxytocin of external validation: why we become addicted to being desired

• The narcissistic push-pull pattern — and how to spot it before you're caught in it

• Why women bonding over insecurities is doing more harm than good

• Three practical body-image exercises to start building self-worth from the inside out

• What Mr. Big's hot-and-cold behaviour reveals about emotional unavailability

About Our Guest

Elodie is a sex therapist and sexological body worker based in Bordeaux, France, working with clients in person and remotely. Her practice bridges mind and body — helping women understand their anatomy, consent, and emotional patterns, and helping men better communicate their needs. Sessions available online worldwide.

Transcript

It's Therapy Tuesday, guys, so welcome to the second episode of And Just Like That, We Found Therapy. Today, we will be reviewing season one, episode two of Sex and the City, Models and Mortals.

For this episode, I am bringing to you a college friend of mine that is now a sex therapist.

She had some great advice on how to break out of fat self-esteem patterns, and she had also some different takes to what I did from the episode, which I find very interesting.

I would love for you to tell me what you're thinking about the podcast so far. Don't forget to rate me five stars. Share it with your friends.

Hope you guys enjoy it. I love you.

Bye.

So welcome, everyone, and welcome, Elodie. I'm very excited to introduce to you guys for the second episode. My very good friend, Elodie.

We went to school together in Boston. And since then, I think we both have had burned out. Elodie's burned out, took her to New Zealand, and then during COVID, she decided to go back to school, and now she is majored in sex therapy.

But Elodie, if you want to tell us a bit more about that journey.

Yes. Hello, everyone. I'm very happy to be here.

Thank you, Izak, for inviting me. So I'm now a sex therapist and also a sexological body worker. So I work around sex both with the mind, but also reminding that sex is in the body as well, for a better sex life, for everyone, hopefully.

That's the goal.

That's fantastic. Thank you so much for that intro, Elodie. In this episode, we get presented with the fact that New York is very well populated by really above average looking women.

And some men that are maybe not that good looking have access to dating models. And they talk about this figure of a man who is a modelizer, i.e. they only date models.

They don't date mortals. And they introduced this story by Miranda Cohen on a date with his modelizer. So Elodie, I wanted to ask you, like, what do you think about men that care so much about the looks of a woman?

For me, it's like, why would someone prefer a beautiful woman, you know?

And some people will say it's the answer to the question, you know? Like, of course you're going to prefer a beautiful woman. And for me, just having this prism, I don't know if it's English, like this way of saying thing, it's really...

You can only look in that lane.

You can only look at beautiful women. Is that what you mean?

Yes, exactly. If you only, you know, see this line of women through their beauty, it's really, really reducing. But why would men prefer only beautiful women?

And I think we can, you know, dive into a little bit of analyzing, you know, different things.

Like in security, it's almost like going out and buying a designer back because, you know, then people know your worth. Like next to a beautiful woman, you don't have to put up anything. People will know, OK, he's a big deal.

He looks like shit, but he's next to a beautiful woman. So he must be rich or powerful.

Yeah, exactly. And I think it's around self-image. You know, if someone has a high image of themself, they want to have someone that is their match, you know, someone of the same status.

And, you know, models are like the high up in society here. They want something, you know, someone, sorry, that match their idea of themselves.

Yeah.

But for the other people who have a low image of themselves, being with a model is like they have arrived, as you were saying, you know, like it's enhancing their social standing. It's a big ego boost.

And as you were introducing the episode about models and mortals, this is it, you know, like models are like gods. And if you're close to a god, you're almost like.

Yeah. I don't know if you, I think I read this book right after we graduated from college, but there's this book by Milan Kundera, The Unbearable Lightness of Being, that at one point describes this man that says, women don't want a good looking man.

They want a man that has been going out with the most beautiful women. And like, what do you think about that? Do you think that there is that certain allure?

Because women, we are more objectified. So you do find alluring men who are used to dating beautiful women. Do you think that that is a thing that it also plays in the women's mind?

Personally, I don't think so.

I think it's more fucking up with women's mind. Like, oh, like he used to date models, but now, I don't have those long legs or blah, blah, blah. And then there's always this parallel, always, always, and devaluing yourself.

So maybe for some women, it's like, oh, he has models. So maybe he can provide because models have such high standards, expectations, but all about stereotypes. So I think it's really hard to just put everyone in one category.

But my perspective is like mostly it's going to be comparison and it's going to be very hard for women to feel good enough when you know that your man has dated like no models.

So you think that if you were to go out with a modelizer, instead of that being uplifting, that would probably be a miserable ever comparison, like comparing yourself to the other ones.

Yeah, absolutely. And also it's comparing, but also proving myself on another era. Maybe I'm not the tallest thinnest, but he's with me, so I have to be the funniest or whatever.

So what do you think?

Because then obviously they go into this other side of things that the girls are grabbing dinner at Carrie's apartment and they're talking about Barclay, which we need to talk about this because Carrie has this friend, Barclay, who is an artist and

apparently a modelizer. And me and Elodie were talking about this before we started recording. That back in the 90s, this guy is filming himself having sex with women and Carrie asks the question, do they know about this?

And he doesn't even blink and he's like, I don't know, maybe.

Yeah, I think it's like, oh my god, now that we're watching this now, we're like, this is not okay. And I think it's important for us to say this is not okay. And time has changed.

And this is a good thing that now we think it's a big red flag and that we should be alarmed by that kind of behavior and we should not validate it even if we're just a witness.

Yeah, I think it's more camaraderie. I can see this playing out in And Just Like That, the spin-off and Carrie being like, I'm going to contact every one of those models, say, by the way, this is out there.

So there's that piece about consent to be said. But besides that, Carrie goes back to tell the girls about this, and then she pulls out a magazine and they start talking about how beautiful women make them feel self-conscious.

And I'm very curious to know your take about this, because I think, you know, women's relationships are, I think, a lot more complex than men's. And I don't like to generalize, but like, I think that's a fair statement.

What do you think about, you know, Samantha allegedly feeling more beautiful close to beauty, but then saying, actually, I want to be close to the runway, because in this angle, you can see all the flaws.

Like, what do you think about women who cannot feel beautiful around beautiful women?

I think it's fair enough, you know. It's difficult and you need to deal with your insecurities.

And of course, being with always with in comparison, it's really difficult, because it's always a reminder that you're not good enough, maybe, or you're not top top model.

My advice will be, if I can say this, if it's really hard to find beauty in yourself with models around you or non models, I think that's valid for everyone. There is so many ways to get better with your body. Can I give you?

Yeah, can you share a bit more on that?

Because I think we've all been there, that at some point you don't feel like you love yourself as much as you should.

Yes. So I'm going to give a few and you can just pick whatever feels good for you. And maybe in two years you remember, oh, maybe I should do this exercise.

So my first practice will be just finding beauty in yourself, but just finding little details. You don't need to be in front of the mirror and say, I love myself. I find myself beautiful.

If it is not what you feel, you just don't do this because it's not going to work. But maybe you're going to like, I think that my hands are beautiful. And just wash your hands, have gratitude for your hands and just say, my hands are beautiful.

And start little and maybe a week later, my hands are beautiful, but I also love my chin. And just building up. And maybe at some point you're going to love 50% of your body.

And that's, if you come from 10%, that's good. That's the good way. So that will be one for me that is really useful.

And another one is the shower of love. Have you ever done this?

No.

It's just sex in the shower. It's just basically like the water flowing from your shower. You're going to say it's love.

And when you're in your shower, you're going to take the water and put it on your body part. So you can put this sweater maybe on your belly. And you're going to say, my belly is receiving love.

And my, I don't know, whatever your insecurities are, my arms are receiving love. So those parts of your body that maybe you hate and that you try to disconnect from and just don't exist, you still give them love because they're still here.

And it's important to be one and you'll feel comfortable in your body. Maybe it's not you that's giving love to those parts, but they're still receiving it. And they need love as well.

Yeah.

So, okay.

I love that.

Any more you can think of?

Yes. I think it's really different. It's just maybe thinking your body as not only something that is beautiful, but what are you using your body for?

So, for example, right now, I'm using my voice to share things and discuss with you, and maybe get listeners to question themselves, or feel better, or whatever.

So, I feel really a lot of gratitude for my voice right now, because it allows me to do something. So, maybe think your body of, okay, this allows me maybe to walk to my train station. Yeah, so, your body is your vessel.

Because I'm going to get a bit real with you now, but I think maybe at some points, you know, I believe also in what you put out there, if your vibrations are high, you attract people with high vibrations, but equally, if you're feeling low, it tends

to be like a self-fulfilling prophecy that when you feel the worst about yourself, it feels like the world knows, and nobody is allured by you. Nobody approaches you.

And I think at times as a woman, especially like if you're in your 20s, 30s and you're out there and you are used to receiving attention, and there's some times where you feel like there's a dry spell, and you could be doing a backflip, getting run

over by a truck and nobody looks at you. How do you feel that sometimes we are so dependent on an external validation to get the permission to love ourselves? Or to say, I am beautiful, and I am lovable, and I am attractive.

Like, do you think that maybe in those times where we find it hard, you know, like the product's not moving, nobody's coming to the shop to claim this, what is it that you think could be a good way to get out of that rut?

Where maybe because every day you keep reaffirming the low vibrations, the low self-worth, how do you break out of that?

I think this one is not an easy one because there can be so many different layers, such as how you've been raised, that can come into play.

So if, my advice, if you get really deep into this, you know, low energy vibe, get some help, because you're in a pattern that needs to be, you know, exploded. And if you cannot do it on yourself, that's fine.

And, you know, there are characters that this is their job and find someone that you feel good with it, because external validation, you know, we're in a society, we live as, you know, as people who like to be in the groups and this is where humans.

So we kind of need this recognition of others, but you're, I don't know, the most important value should be within yourself.

And, you know, external validation is part of it, but you should be stronger, you know, on the balance, this should be stronger for you.

Well, this is how I believe at least, because it's easier to work on yourself than having others change other people's behavior. So, you know, just try to focus on yourself. And if it's harder for yourself, just get help, because we need it.

But I guess maybe also one of the first steps can be one of the three things that you said on how to start loving yourself a bit more.

Okay, I wanted to maybe go back again a bit more into the episode, because I think also in this episode, when Miranda goes on this date with this guy who's a modelizer, who's like, I'm sorry, like short.

Yeah, he might have a good job, but like he's short. He's not particularly attractive to me. And Miranda goes on this date, gets introduced to a bunch of people that are super nice, super smart, good conversation.

And then she finds out like the girlfriends of this guy are like, oh my God, we're so grateful that I think his name was Nick, brought you to dinner because he's brought all these models and they just push their foot around. They don't say anything.

They don't know what we're talking about. And finally, he brought you so not obviously a model. And I think, you know, we all know, if model is not in our CV, we're not models.

But I think there's this thing that Miranda takes it as a personal insult or a personal attack on her appearance that she's not a model.

And one of my your experiment with like a smart woman, like, what do you think about Miranda taking this so personally?

Because I was like, girl, you had a, yeah, what Nick said in a way, like you had a fantastic time, you met good people, we had a great time. What do you think about her taking this so personally?

Yes, I think it's really funny because she is so shocked by this attitude. And I think it's the way the women bring it up.

Of course, it will be more like, oh, we want someone who can have deeper conversation because this is how we want to build life and needs to go deeper.

Maybe she will not feel this way because she will be more validated and valued as a woman with some spirit and stuff like that. So this is really putting pressure back on the body and you're not a model and comparing yourself.

So I think it goes well with the episode, but the fact that she takes it so personally, I think it shows her insecurity around this and because she was not prepared at all to this. And it's like, oh my God, this is too much.

I can't deal with it, which is funny because she's really shocked. And then in this episode, she is not really respectful with the Keeper. So she is almost goth-ing him and it's really unrespectful.

So I think it's funny that the episode is also showing, well, maybe not what comes and what goes around, but...

It rolls down hill, like because she gets treated badly, she then gets empowered by treating somebody not as well as she should have, and I agree. But then we have a similar thing.

Like I just found it so interesting because on the one hand, if you look at how the writers of this show wrote about the men dating the models, but then about how this women feel about beauty.

And then in that scene where they're in Carrie's apartment and they're talking about their insecurities, I feel like there's that bonding thing where women love to bond about, one, sharing heartbreak, like how much of a fool did your exes made you

feel, but also being self-deprecating. And they go around the table and carry comments on her nose. Miranda raises her chin and Charlotte talks about her calves. And then they look at Samantha like, okay, your turn.

And Samantha's like, no, I feel great about myself, which I think we know that is maybe not true. But they all kind of like look at her like, oh, you're not doing this bonding thing with us.

Do you think that it's healthy for women to try to bond about being self-deprecating?

No, absolutely not. Okay, so for me, bonding over insecurities is like how society trying to downplay beauty or intellect or whatever. You have to be modest.

And it's more acceptable to be modest and self-appreciate yourself than have some self-confidence because it's more seen as arrogance. And we can see it with, you know, oh, you are a bit arrogant, you know, you feel yourself higher than everyone.

But no, this is not the way. It's not a comparison. It's just I feel good with myself.

Maybe it's not true, but she doesn't want to go down this way. And it could be a defense mechanism, you know, like I'm putting myself down first so no one else can do it. I keep the control of it.

But for me, in this episode, you know, it's not healthy to do that. I think it's important to welcome vulnerability. If you don't feel good with, I don't know, your double chin, whatever, that's okay, you know.

And as friends, you can welcome your vulnerability and you're feeling awkward with it. And you can be seen and you can be loved with this. And I don't have to say, oh, well, me too.

I have this, that is that. No, I can just welcome you and I think it's enough. And at least we're not taking each other down.

And maybe there's another time where I have to share my insecurities and that's okay. But let's not take everyone down and, you know, confront ourselves being down. I think it's not a good way to do it.

Do you see what I'm trying to say?

I'm trying to picture myself in these conversations because I think I saw myself so much that when we met in college and we would have this issues about like, oh, this boy didn't call me back.

And then I would say, well, you think it's bad that this boy didn't call you back? This boy saw me in the street and he crossed to the other side not to have to say hello. And then somebody comes in and is like, you think that's bad?

This boy kicked me out of his bed and his flat in the middle of the night. So I've seen myself do that. And sometimes I've done things just to make...

That's my way of showing up and being like, you're okay. It has happened to everybody and it's been even worse and it's fine. And that's the way that I think I've been taught to provide nurturing, comfort, validation to my friends.

And I thought it with good results. So do you think that in those cases it's better to be like, you know what, screw him, he didn't know... Because those things are just like, you could pick up a hallmark card and it could be the same.

No hallmark card will say like, oh, don't worry if this guy didn't call you back. There's people out there that this happened to them. Like, do you think that it's a better way to maybe take out those like, well, screw him, not worth it.

What do you think?

I think it depends on the situation. Maybe your friend needs, you know, comfort. Maybe, you know, she needs a solution.

Maybe she needs, you know, for everyone to be angry with her. It really depends. You need to understand where your friend is coming from and what she needs or he needs.

And it's not that easy, you know, it depends.

OK, and then maybe about Carrie. I wanted to I'm fascinated by her always, because I think, you know, to me, she's everything that I'm not. So I've always looked up to her because she's, you know, she's very tiny.

She's petite.

She's short.

She has great booze, but it's like super, super petite in the like torso area. And I think she's gorgeous and she's different. And there's this after party after the fashion show.

And she looks great. She has a great sense of style. And I think she has the body to carry it.

And she says, Mr. Big again. And there's this interaction where he's obviously kind of like dropping hints that he's flirting with her, but not picking up anything really.

And I think Carrie, you know, gets caught up in those things where she's like eating in the middle of a models after party.

And this guy who she thinks is what would provide her with the ultimate validation, I think, at this stage, comes up and like interrupts her eating and then they have this clumsy interaction. And then this woman comes up to Mr. Big as his date.

And she's a model. And Carrie says, in a room full of Chanel, I felt like patchouli. And I, that sentence has stuck with me through the years because I've had that feeling sometimes.

Do you think that that is her being vulnerable because she thinks she might like this guy? What do you think about how Mr. Big is approaching her?

I have so many thoughts about this. What do you think?

Okay, I think the first thing is that she's eating in this model thing. And throughout the episode, we can see this over and over. The girls are bonding with their Chinese food, talking about models.

At the beginning of the episode, Miranda is eating cake in the kitchen while speaking about models. I think so. It's really funny.

Every time we speak about models, there's food involved to really do the balance. I think it's... I love it how the producer has done this.

But for Carrie, for me, it's such a tough one. I just want to shake her. I'm like, oh my god, wake up.

Please tell me what's going on. Because as you say, this is how you're feeling about her. But we don't really know what's going on for her.

We don't really know what is her intention, what is she really feeling. And for me, it's really interesting because everyone can kind of put what they want on her. This is, you know, really an open book.

Yeah.

That you can project whatever it is that, yes.

Yes. So you're projecting, you know, you feel, you know, really, you know, the channel comment is for you, stuck for you. And for me, it's like, oh my god, like, why are you allowing yourself to be in the situation?

Because I've been in those situations where I should have left, you know, and now I'm like, oh, I'm stuck. And this is really what's striking to me.

I'm saying this, you know, not as a therapist, of course, because I could never allow myself to say that, but really how funny how you can put your thing. So for me, I'm not feeling the same way as you do about this.

And yeah, I think she was hoping for validation here, and obviously she didn't get it.

And I think that the fact that the model is coming light in the conversation is really like she was building up, building up this, you know, even if it's clumsy, but you know, they're still, they're talking so close to each other, you know, we almost

expect something to happen, but the model comes in and just everyone comes down. And yeah.

And then on the other side of things, like, how would you feel if you were in her shoes or Carrie was your best friend and this guy is flirting with her while on another date?

Because I think it's like he is so aggressively putting himself in the running to be something with Carrie, but also being very obvious about being unavailable.

Getting these mixed signals is the worst, I think. Yeah. Because you can really get caught up on one side and just see one side.

And the thing is that this emotional push and pull is really, for me, a big warning. Where is the respect? Where are the boundaries?

He's pushing because it's like idealizing and giving attention. Oh, he's going to talk to her and he comes back later on for a two-second conversation where she works. And it's giving all this little attention and validation.

And then he pulls back, coming with a model, devaluing her work, saying, oh, this is cute, you know, like, you know, really criticizing almost it. And it brings confusion. And for me, Carrie is like in this confusion state.

And watch out because, yeah, sorry.

Do you think that maybe when a woman gets into that push and pull and that hot and cold and, you know, I give you two goods, one bad or two, yes, I want to date you, one, no. How could you think that?

Do you think that you become emotionally invested and then it's less about him? It's just like, oh, I've put up with so much.

It's made me feel so many different things that then you get the message like, oh, what we'll get to here over and over again. Well, he's my Mr. Big, you know, he's made me feel so up, so down.

Now I need to see it through. Do you think that there's a bit of that? Sometimes it's not about the man, but like what you have gone through with that man.

Absolutely.

And also, I think you're right. And when you go through this confusion state, you know, like the mind is so confused that if he gives you like a little positive thing, you're going to catch it and you know, this is going to be become so big for you.

So it is really like how you can manipulate people. For them, it's such a horrible state. And then the little things, it's going to be such like a relief for them.

And in French, we say it could be a pattern for a narcissistic pervert. I don't know if you say this in English.

I've heard many times about narcissistic behavior, but not pervert. Can you?

Yeah.

In French, you know, it's like, I think it's a narcissistic behavior, but the one that is like pathological, we call it pervert because there is some kind of perversion. Yeah, I know.

I love it.

This is why I'm like, I'm going to say this. I don't know. Even if it's not English, we should, you know, get this little French things in it.

I will kind of go.

Please.

And for me, like watch out for the red flags because emotional insecurity, lack of empathy, you know, it could be a behavior of someone who's going to go into the cycle of I give you a lot of things, then I treat you badly, and then I give you a lot

of things and treat you badly. And then, you know, the treating you badly, you know, part is bigger and bigger and bigger, and the treating you nicely is smaller and smaller, but you're caught in it, and then you're just, you cannot get out of it

because when you were a narcissistic pervert, you were also, you know, going to cut everyone else from your world. And so, yeah, exactly. So it gets harder and harder to get out.

And at first it was so validating that you need this validation again and again and again. And even if you have to wait longer and be treated badly because at some point you know you're going to get it.

And yeah, this is really like a reminder to, you know, watch out for that type of behavior. Maybe it's not, you know, logical.

Yeah, nip it in the bud. Just, you know, see it, recognize it, run the other way.

Exactly. And if it's hard for you to see it, my advice will be to write it down. Write down everything that is happening.

So maybe you can do, you know, one part of your book positive things, one part of the book negative things. And you can read it back, okay? Am I okay for having been treating Babi this here, here, here, here?

Because you tend to forget when you're in a confusion state. So sometimes writing it down like, eww.

I'm dying to ask though, what goes on in this case in Mr. Big's head? Why do they do that?

What triggers this pathological perversion? It's fascinating to see that sometimes they will go through this depths of treating somebody, they probably really appreciate so badly.

So, I'm not a psychotherapist, so I'm not going to be able to say if Mr. Big is a narcissist pervert or he's just playing games. So maybe there's a part of like, oh, I like the dynamic, the power.

And as he's not getting hurt, he doesn't have maybe this empathetic way to figure things out for the other person.

So maybe he just likes the game and being able to seduce someone, but also, oh, I still can't have any other woman, but I like this little challenge. I don't really know. Let's invite him on the podcast, Sanya.

Yeah, I will get a psychotherapist to brief us on that side.

Thank you so much, Elodie.

I think I'm getting to my favorite bit of the episodes where I'm going to ask you, as maybe the sex therapist of some of them and best friend of some of others, because I think there's a bit of more sex in this episode, what would you tell each one

of the four girls? So, Charlotte doesn't appear that much on this episode, but she talks about calves, calves, calves, like how she cannot open a magazine without seeing calves and feeling personally attacked by the magazines.

What would your advice to her be?

So, first of all, don't open a magazine. So, that's my first advice.

If you open the magazine.

Yeah, because I think now we can say, maybe the same thing for Instagram today.

You can follow people who are looking like models, and if your entire feed is just models, models, models, models, you're never going to compare yourself, you're going to feel bad.

So, just open your world, maybe look for something different, and just don't focus only on this.

Open, widen, and I think for Charlotte, it's really important here for the cop thing, but also for her character to be open to witness something different than what she wants, what she expects.

And just witness, not something for her, but at least broaden her knowledge of things and broaden her knowledge of relationships.

Okay, then next, Samantha.

I think, you know, in this episode, we see her, how she relates to beauty, feeling more beautiful being close to beauty, but then wanting to be close enough to be able to spot the imperfections and then seeing Barclay with Carrie at the show and

saying like, oh, is he straight up or with a twist, meaning is he gay, is he straight, is he available? And once she finds out he is a modelizer, she did her business to sleep with him and then insists on being filmed.

And while they're at it, she asks like, oh, is this being filmed? And he says, no, I only do that with models. And then she's like, well, I will...

As a sex therapist, I'm crazy to know what you think about this.

My advice or question will be to Samantha, who are you without your sexuality? And I think that's a big thing. Like outside of sex, where is your power?

Because for me, around her, it's all about empowerment and how she uses sex as empowerment. Because it's a way to control and to be the one with the power, deciding and choosing and going for.

And I just want to say, I don't know if you say this in English, but in French, when you sleep with many people, you call them your conquests.

Yes.

So yeah, so it's the war words that you were using.

So I think there is some kind of power that she's looking into this, but also that it's related to what you said earlier, that if I anticipate somebody commenting on my chin, so if she anticipates being the unavailable one, she'll never get hurt.

No, that could be a thing, of course. I think there are many layers to her character. So she could be doing the self-defense mechanism, but she could also be like, okay, I want this be validated.

And every time I'm able to get what I want and pursuing it, I get this validation, but it becomes an addiction. We can relate to today's world with the apps like Tinder and stuff like that or OKCupid. And you get match and match and match.

And when you don't get a match, you're like, oh, I don't feel good. So then you're caught up in this constant validation seeking.

And this is why I want to ask her, please let me know, what is your power outside of sexuality just to bring her up in an other way than through her sex powers? And the idea is to empower her through other means.

Interesting.

OK, next up is Miranda, because Miranda here, you know, she gets the short end of the stick, you might say, by finding out that this guy only asked her out as an experiment and then kind of takes it out on Skipper when Skipper confronts her.

And then Miranda's like, oh, validation. Come back to my place. What would your advice be to her?

So my advice will be, what do you want?

You know, like because she gets, I think, both sides of the spectrum on this episode. So what do you really want and why? My question will be, why do you want those things?

And place values next to whatever you want. When you put your values next to, OK, maybe I want someone who is, I don't know, ambitious or whatever. And you're just going to put the values next to it.

And after, at some point, if you get a long list, you have a lot of values and you can rank your values.

What you want in a partner.

Yeah. What are you looking for?

Yeah. If Skipper doesn't fit that wishlist and you know that you're not interested, maybe be upfront about it.

I think we're not shopping for a washing machine. And you know, we're looking for a human. So we have so many layers and everyone is not perfect.

But if you ask yourself, what are the most important values that I'm looking for in a partner? So maybe, and if you're listed like, I know 20 items, it's too long, you're never going to find this perfect partner.

But if you put your 20 items and then next week you put the values and then you rank your top three or four values, it's going to give you clarity.

And maybe not ghost, poor skipper and stop answering his calls.

Yeah, please be respectful to everyone. Yeah.

Okay. And finally, Carrie, there's her relating to Mr. Big.

I think any woman can see that she's smitten by him and what he means to her. And he keeps being hot and cold, like, I go talk to you at a party, but I am here with another date.

I go see you at the cafe where you told me you're right, but I can't stay, I got to go. What would your advice to Carrie be?

Okay. First of all, for Carrie, as I was stating earlier, I want to ask her what's going on for you, because we can understand that she's kind of trouble with Mr. Big, but I don't know what she feels like.

I need words, I need thoughts, I need feelings, sensation. Tell me something. Yeah.

Get it out there. We need communication.

I think for her, what she means, and I think this relates back to her sentence of like, in a room full of Chanel, I felt like patchouli. She, to me, she sees Mr. Big as her ticket to Chanel land.

He would be the designer back, claiming like, fine, I can be scrappy and I write a sex column in this shitty newspaper, but like, he's a big deal, so here's my worth. Attaching him to the worth.

I think that's what she's projecting on to him, and that's why she is like smitten about getting something with him.

So maybe he is her model, her, you know, gods, you know, closer to...

I do think what beauty is in women, and power is in men, and he is powerful. And he also has the allure of dating beautiful women that I think some women care about.

So would your advice to her be like, runaway girl, like this guy is showing his true color, he's unavailable? Or would you advise for her to be like, if you really like him, maybe try to get to know him and call him out? Or what would your advice be?

My advice will be like, if it's her ticket to the channel, is this okay for her?

Can we put consciousness on it? And maybe this pattern is not okay for her, she wants to achieve by herself, or maybe that's okay. So if it's okay for her, what is it worth?

Is it okay to be treated badly or not? And just put a light on it and see where she stands. Because I can tell her, bad idea, don't go there.

But if she's attracted to this thing, my advice will be that, you know, useless. She needs to go deeper and understand what's going on.

Yeah. Okay, fantastic. Great advice.

Thank you so much, Elodie. This has been all great advice. So lastly, where can people find you and maybe describe a bit more how you work with your clients?

Yes.

So thank you for inviting me. It was really fun. So I work in Bordeaux in France, but I'm also open to work remotely, so we can do online sessions.

And my work is around sex and the body. For me, it's really important to put the body into play because we have sex with the body.

So most of my work with women is around understanding their anatomy, understanding how they work and consent, understanding what is consent from them and how does it feel in your body.

It's different to understand it in your head and feeling it in your body and listening to all the little things that your body is telling you to say yes, no, yes, no. So I work a lot around this.

And I think for men, I work mostly to give them clarity about how we all are different, how they can better understand their partner and how can they understand their needs and communicate it.

And so it's different work, but both of the work are really important, I think, for a healthier sex life.

Fantastic. That sounds super interesting. I will put in the show notes the website on how they can find you.

Yes.

Thank you so much.

Thank you, Elodie. Talk to you soon.