Sex, Dating & the Charlotte vs. Samantha Dilemma — Pilot Episode with Vana Koutsomitis

About This Episode

In the very first episode of And Just Like That… We Found Therapy, host Isabel MV sits down with elite matchmaker and dating coach Vana Koutsomitis to unpack Sex and the City's pilot episode. They explore the two extremes of modern dating — the Charlotte method (boundaries, standards, leaning back) versus the Samantha approach (sexual liberation, no strings attached) — and ask whether women today are forced to date more like Samantha just to survive dating apps.

What We Cover

• The Charlotte vs. Samantha dating spectrum — and what science says about oxytocin and emotional attachment after sex

• The salsa dancing analogy for navigating the chase in early dating

• Why playing games is unsustainable — and what Carrie's behaviour reveals about self-worth

• How many dates you actually need to know if someone is right for you

• Dating advice for each of the four SATC girls from a professional matchmaker

About Our Guest

Vana Koutsomitis is a serial entrepreneur, former Apprentice UK candidate, and elite matchmaker based in New York. She helps clients find meaningful relationships through a structured, values-led approach to modern dating. Find her on IG and Substack @VanaCristina.

Hello and welcome to the very first episode of On Just Like That, We Found Therapy. I am such a big fan of podcasts. I listen to Almost Adulting, Call Her Daddy, Where Do We Begin, everything iconic all the time.

So this is my very humble contribution to this universe. Whether you want to watch the episodes before listening to the show, I will leave that up to you.

I know the show by heart, so I know I wouldn't need to, but then again, that is completely up to you.

Please don't forget to rate me five stars, share with your friends, and leave me any good feedback as lovingly as you can of anything you think I should be doing that I'm not doing already. Love you, enjoy.

All right, so Vana, thank you so much for coming on board and being my first guest on this adventure. So for this first episode, I have a very special guest on. She's one of my very close friends, Vana.

Vana is a serial entrepreneur that I actually met in Investment Banking in London over 10 years ago. She was assigned my buddy, and bless her. She has not stopped looking after me ever since.

Since then, Vana has been on The Apprentice UK. She's had several companies herself, including a dating app, and now she's an elite matchmaker, also dating coach, both paid and underpaid, if you're her close friends from 2011.

But Vana, thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited, and I can't wait to see what this podcast has to hold for our future. It's going to be amazing.

Anything else you want to add to this intro?

I don't think so.

I think you got it. I'm a New York City girl, here to talk to you about dating.

Well, you come from the right place. So let's dive into it. So I give you some homework.

You, more than anyone, know the premise of my podcast. So we're going to talk about the first episode of one of my favorite shows, Sex and the City.

In this episode, they start with this, like whatever third party person that actually moves to London into New York, meets this guy in a very romantic way. She thinks they're going to get married and then he ghosts her.

Before ghosting is a thing, which I think it's hilarious. And that's how we get introduced. Romance has died in Manhattan.

I don't think it's kind of revived since, let us know it's different. But I think the whole episode, you know, other than meeting the girls, we get introduced with two concepts. We can date two ways.

According to Charlotte, which is following the playbook of like not putting out, waiting for the guy to call, and you know, sort of playing these games that are like hard to get type.

Or the Samantha way, which Carrie tries on for the episode with an ex of hers, which is have sex like a man, no strings attached, go with the flow. And I think throughout the episode, they keep asking, is this true?

Do men like their women unavailable? What do you think of this? What are your initial thoughts?

Do you think it's possible to be like a man? If you're a cisgender, heterosexual woman?

Basically, we're talking about is these sort of two extremes on the spectrum of dating approaches, right? We're talking about the extreme of Charlotte, which is like, let's call it the Charlotte method, which is all about playing hard to get.

And it's all about like high standards and boundaries. And then really ensuring that mutual respect, right? And that seriousness.

And it's like creating space for the guy to prove himself. So you're basically like leaning back, the Charlotte leans back and she's like, okay, you want me? Come get me, right?

And then there's the Samantha, which is obviously a very different approach. And it's much more like liberated and free. And it's all around focusing on like physical relationships and not getting emotionally attached.

So my question is, is there something in between? Does it have to be either or? Because I actually don't think it does.

In my experience, it depends on what you're looking for, right? If you're looking for a long-term relationship, the Charlotte method is going to be the better approach. If we're going to do completely binary-

One or the other, yeah.

It's either A or B, we're going to do the Charlotte approach for looking for relationships.

But I think our dating world has gotten so much more nuanced. Women have had to start dating in a way that feels more like a Samantha, because of the dating apps, right?

Because there are so many options out there, and because dating moves so fast these days, as a protection mechanism, I think women have started to date more like Samantha.

So to summarize, if you're looking for emotional intimacy and a long-term commitment, I think the Charlotte approach is better and it creates that foundation.

But if you're dating more to explore your own sexuality and to discover your own independence, then I think the Samantha freedom path is the way to go. It's just about how much you can handle when it comes to emotional fulfillment.

Do you want, is the only way for your emotional fulfillment to be met, to date like Charlotte and to get a long-term relationship, or are you the type of girl who could date many guys at once and get your emotional fulfillment in small little doses?

Okay, so now I have a follow-up questions because you know that I've done my fair share of listening to podcasts about dating.

I have heard repeatedly that the science, the chemicals, the hormones that happen before and after you have sex are completely different as a man and a woman, which comes to me like, of course, a woman can say, you know what, I'm going to be my best

Samantha self and I'm going to have sex, no strings attached and as you said, it depends on how well you can navigate those emotions. But the fact of the matter is, and I'm not a scientist, but apparently it is scientifically proven that a man will

cling on to a woman leading up to sex and then after sex, he's relaxed and he detaches and a woman is different. She's detached and then they have sex and then she releases this hormone thing that will cause for her to get attached.

Okay. So that little hormone thing we're talking about is called oxytocin and you're not wrong. So I also am not a trained scientist, but in my experience, I have noticed that women do bond more with men after sex.

So I think this is a really fascinating question, right? Because there are biological and psychological differences in how men and women date, right? And in how men and women approach sex.

So for women, as you said, like the oxytocin, the bonding hormone, increases after they have sex. So that makes emotional detachment really hard for some women.

But I also want to mention that I know a lot of women and have a lot of clients that can do this because all women are different. There is not just a one size fits all.

So I know many women who can follow that Samantha model of more casual sex and not have emotional attachment.

So if you have experienced this sort of attachment after sex, then of course you should be a little more careful because you know that that's the way your body responds. But it is possible to do this Samantha way. I've seen it firsthand.

Okay.

Well, we'll leave that then up to our listeners. But then let's dip our toes a bit more into the stages of dating.

Because I like my problem with the Charlotte method, which I think is naturally the one that I tend to incline towards, is like, you know, I'm a strong independent woman. I know what I want. Why should I lean back and wait for this guy to ask me out?

I know I like him. I'm going to ask him out. And I think there is a difficulty navigating, like, how much do I want to be just the one that is, like, reactive?

You guys come up to me and, like, we'll see, because then I feel like you might end up with a bottom of the litter or the last pick of the litter. And I'm a control freak, so I feel like I lose control with that.

Or, you know, like, sometimes they do say in the episode, do all men like their women unavailable and promiscuous? And I don't want to, like, kind of ruin the future of my podcast, but, like, we do see Mr.

Big eventually kind of loses his mind about Carrie once she is unavailable. So what's your experience, especially in your work field?

Do you think that there is, to an extent, maybe in early stages, it's worth to play that game and place yourself for this high-value woman that, like, maybe needs to tie those hands, put those thumbs away, not call, not text, lean back and let them

I'm going to answer your question with a metaphor, okay?

So whenever I get this question from my clients in their dating lives, so when a client comes to me and they want to meet their match, they get that set up, and they ask me about the communication, like, how are they supposed to manage the

connection? The question usually comes from women, by the way. And what I always mention is that they should think of it like salsa dancing, okay?

So in salsa dancing, we can think of the hunt and the chase is similar to the dynamic of leading and following the dance, okay? So like leading and following in salsa.

So in salsa, as you know, the man leads and guides the dance with very clear cues, and then the woman follows. But she follows in her own way with her own flair and with her own independence.

She, not every woman is going to respond to those leads and to those moves in the same way. So there's a balance in salsa. And like, while the leader of Just Like That...

I'm loving this analogy.

And why is it the first time that I'm hearing about this analogy?

We haven't started working together. So basically, like, there's this balance in salsa, right? Like the leader is initiating and then the follower, like, usually, the woman is actually equally important, right?

Because she's adding her own style and her own flair and contribution to this connection. My whole theory is, like, just in the relationships, like, the excitement of salsa comes from the interplay of that give and take, right?

It's not about just one person pursuing or dominating. The magic is in the interplay. So, like, if either partner is too focused on, like, controlling or playing hard to get, then the flow and connection of the dance is just disrupted.

So, I guess my answer to you is just like, it's not that simple, right? It's not that simple. It's not just about, like, not responding to his text.

It's about getting into the dance. And in salsa, like in relationships, like, the authentic connection is what creates the best experience, right? So, over-complicating the chase detracts from the joy of the dance.

Okay.

Imagine you're dancing salsa, and the whole time you're, like, trying to do your own, you're, like, pulling back constantly, and he's, like, trying to move you.

I'm just doing ska moves, yeah.

Right? Like, it just doesn't work. I love this.

So, now I think I'm going to bring it back to the episode. At one point, Charlotte goes on this amazing date. Like, honestly, watching the show is always like, oh, to be a Charlotte in this world.

Upper East Side girl, she gets assed out by Toxic Bachelor number X, this Capote Duncan dude that is like, tall, handsome, has a good flat, is very good looking, has a good job. Takes her, I think, to the opera, to the ballet, can't tell.

And then they are doing this little dance of, all right, they were kissing, and he invites her over to his flat, and then Charlotte is like, oh, I have an early morning, i.e., going back to the handbook, playing hard to get.

And then she sees that he completely takes that back, and is like, yeah, that's fine. And then Charlotte is like, you know what, let me tease a bit more, let me do another dance.

And says, you know what, on second thought, I'd love to see that piece of art at your flat. And then they go back to this guy's place. They have this, I think he takes it as like a green light of okay, it's happening.

And then Charlotte is like, yeah, no, I have an early morning. And they kind of agree to have another date the next Saturday. And then he pulls this thing where he's like, actually, you're going uptown, aren't you?

He jumps in the cab, gives another address to kind of get dropped off on the way. And Charlotte is like, wait a second, are you going to this club?

It's like, yeah, completely understand what you're doing, but don't get me wrong, I need to get laid tonight. What do you think about this? Because obviously, he's there, give it a cue.

Charlotte is like, what the hell? Short circuits around the whole thing. What do you think of that?

Is it okay? Is it, well, obviously it depends on whoever. Do you think that maybe reading that cue and being like, oh, thank you for being honest, kind of gives a bad routine for the rest of your dancing lives?

Well, again, it depends on what your intention is.

So if your intention is to date like a Samantha and just have fun, then maybe that openness is okay, right? Maybe that's actually acceptable.

But if you're more of a Charlotte looking for a long-term relationship, it probably is an immediate turn off. And I think this is just around mutual respect and boundaries. So my biggest problem with this situation is that their values do not align.

Okay? So if we go back to the salsa analogy, the cab ride in dating is like a dip or a spin in salsa. It's not the dip itself that's the issue.

It's whether both partners feel comfortable and ready to take that dip. If one dancer isn't ready, the dance loses its harmony, right? So similarly, in early dating, it's about finding the right rhythm together.

It's about feeling like you're both being respected and in sync. And my opinion here is that these are two people who are completely out of sync. He should be dating Samantha, right?

Which he ends up with at the end of the episode.

And I love that. And I love that you say that I think there are values that are misaligned. But what if in an alternative universe, he was a smart man and he was like, I'm going to wait until she's gone to do this.

Charlotte finds out, but kind of like five months in, when he's like, actually, I'm head over heels about you. So happy you took me upon that second date offer.

But can you believe after that first night, I did this and I ended up back home with somebody else. Does that make it okay? Does that make the values aligned?

What do you think? Because obviously, as you said, men are very different to women in dating and the way they approach sex. So how much room do you think is okay to make?

It's a spectrum.

You need to decide what you're comfortable with on that spectrum. Having observed Charlotte and seen her through the episodes, I do not think that this man is on her spectrum. He's way off her spectrum.

He's on planet Mars. He is not on the earth that Charlotte is on. So I do not think that this relationship is destined for success.

I think that this relationship is destined for failure because his priorities are so different from hers. And not all men are like this. I think that's the other thing I want to mention.

You make it sound like all men are going to be like these absolute animals. And at the end of the day...

All right, Lana. You live in New York. I live in London.

We know how it is to date in cities like this, where there's a big enabling factor of everything around the city for toxic bachelors.

But not all men are like this.

I agree.

But lots are against it. I promise you. Lots might be against us, but the majority of men, in my experience, do not exhibit this type of behavior.

This to me is extreme behavior because he's so comfortable with his desires that he doesn't even read the room. Charlotte is like this prim and proper little girl from Upper East Side, Park Avenue apartment and their pearls.

If he's telling her this, this guy is wild, wild.

I think you're absolutely right. I love your take on this, completely agree. Now, I'm going to do this when I'm going to take one for the team of the listeners.

Then again, I go to therapy, I date, I try. I date for a long-term partnership, not for Samantha purposes. What are your thoughts on therapist always?

I'm not generalizing, maybe my therapist, I should say, sometimes says like, you got to give it another shot. How can you know so quick? Obviously, in this case scenario, I think that's a red flag.

If you see a red flag and as they say, when somebody tells you who they are the first time, you can't believe them, but what's your experience in getting two people to truly feel out whether or not they're compatible?

Do you think that even if you're not head over heels in the first three dates, that's okay? Is it a five-date thing? Does it depend on the date?

What's your experience with how long it takes to navigate whether or not they're on both spectrums?

That's an interesting question because the instinct that I've seen amongst my clients is that they want to give it one date. So after one date, if it doesn't go well, they're very quick to say, okay, no, on to the next one.

I do think that has to do with the availability of prospects that we have on these dating apps because we always feel like, oh, there's so many other options.

Where the Cheesecake Factory, they have 100 cheesecakes, why would I get that same cheesecake if I'm not sure I liked it? If I have literally 99 others. I guess the question is like how extreme is that dissonance?

So if you did not click with someone right away, that's one thing. But if you were repelled by them, that's a completely different thing. So again, I think this is a spectrum.

I think it depends how badly that first date went. And then based on that, then you can decide what to do on the next date. But I do not think that you should write off a man immediately on the first date without giving them another chance.

I think it's important to give the process enough time. I always recommend the second date. That's my, as a matchmaker, that is my recommendation because sometimes nerves and awkwardness can get in the way of that first date.

Some people are just slower to warm up. If we want to go back to the salsa thing, sometimes it takes a few tries when you're dancing to get in sync. And sometimes it might take that second dance to really find your rhythm.

So I don't think you should wait till date five. Let me just be abundantly clear. I just believe in taking the second date.

And I think that's a great point.

And it comes very much in agreement with one of my dating biggest motos, which is if you want to start thinking about a relationship with someone, the bare minimum is, are both people willing to make an effort to make ends meet?

Because at one point, fine, you know, you can't say the client here is a woman. You can convince a woman easily to give a second chance because I think we're softer-hearted.

But then obviously, you know, when men do not want to do shit, I do think that the bare minimum is to know like, you know what? Yeah, fine. Maybe that wasn't her best night.

Everybody has enough day. But like I was intrigued. I'm willing to give it another go.

I'm willing to put in time.

Exactly. Exactly. So that's why I think rather than talking about five dates, with my experience, like when I'm speaking to my clients, it's just really important to tell them, give the guy a second chance or give the girl a second chance.

So it's all about the second date. Past the second date, I really don't think you should have to force it. If the rhythm is not there on date two, it's probably not going to be the right rhythm.

I think this is amazing news because at the end of the day, if there's anything that we don't have limitless off, it's time.

So I think having two dates max, kind of like make things clearer, faster, you can move on to the next prospect. Fantastic. Now I want to switch gears a little bit because I think we touched up on it a little bit.

Part of this episode follows Kerry doing this little experiment that I think every woman has fantasized with.

A man hurts you, he hurts you once, he hurts you twice, and then you kind of fantasize of like, oh, I'm going to run into him and I'm going to be next to this.

Yes.

Like beautiful man and he's going to suck it, and then I'm going to toy with him, and I'm going to make him suffer.

When Kerry runs into this guy at this restaurant when she's with Stanford, her wish to go there and dangle a little carrot in front of him, completely get it. I think she's so brave to be like, you know what?

I'm going to put my heart on the line again, because it's been squashed four times. Let's try it a fifth time. Then she does this thing, sex with no strings attached and has sex like a man, which I think it's again, very interesting experiment.

It was very interesting to see her be so empowered about it. But then there's a U-turn when she runs into him, the club that they keep talking about in this episode. He's like, I was so pissed off that I understood.

You finally get the kind of relationship that I want. Amazing. Give me a call.

If I'm single, I'm there for you. Turns around, kisses another woman, and then Carrie feels like all that power goes away. What do you think goes on there?

How much of that do you think that is sometimes when we try to play games, and maybe we adapt into a persona that is not 100 percent us.

Yes.

The shoe is not going to fit completely, and you don't hold all the control. They might come back with something like this and it might hurt. What do you think?

Number one, do you think that is maybe compromising too much on the persona, never goes well if you want to play games? Second of all, what do you think happens that she goes from feeling empowered to not feeling empowered?

This taps upon a very important issue when it comes to performance. In our working world, we have been told that it's important to perform. You want to perform well, you get performance reviews.

You want to perform like a top earner because there's someone in the corridor wanting to take your job. I do not believe in performance when it comes to dating. I believe in authenticity and being yourself.

This touches upon a very important point, which is that Carrie is constantly performing. She has these feelings, she has these emotions, she has these instincts and intuitions that we have as women very, very deeply.

But her choice is to ignore those intuitions, ignore all that, and then perform. What ends up happening to her is obvious in my mind, because she's constantly performing instead of feeling the natural flow and then it's unsustainable.

Eventually, you lose touch with your authentic self and then I believe that the other person notices the lack of genuine connection. I believe that we can only be actors for so long, we can only be performers for so long.

You can go into your banking job or go into that corporate office and perform for the day, but you couldn't keep that performance on 24-7 for months. My whole theory is that real connection comes when both partners are honest and fully themselves.

Playing these games can be like being coy at the beginning is okay, but playing this level of games just creates a false rhythm. How can you build something lasting on a shaky foundation?

I completely agree. Okay, and then the second part of my question, I think, maybe has to do with how she gets hurt.

Do you think that that's because she still has feelings for that guy and because she was just thinking about things according to her perspective and never fantasized about him having somebody else, she's hurt?

Or I guess it's also very similar to this, but do you think that it's about ego? Do you think that it's about her having sex and getting again that, what was it? Oxi what?

Oxytocin.

Oxytocin.

I was going to call it oxycontin. Oxytocin released again that she's attached and then she sees that he's disattached. Do you think that it's hormonal?

Do you think that it's her ego? What do you think that is about?

I think this is a nuanced question, right? Because we always have our ego involved when it comes to dating. Our ego is an important part of our persona, right?

I think there's a lot of talk in the spiritual world about ego, like, oh, eliminate your ego. But like the ego is actually what protects us, right? So in my opinion, Carrie getting hurt could be a mix of factors, right?

So it's a blend of like emotions that are tied to ego rejection, but then it could also be her biological response. So I think she may have developed some early feelings, but it could also be about her fantasy of what could be.

And I think that's the danger. That's where we have to be really careful about future thinking and looking forward. It's super important in dating to be in the present.

Be here and now. What is happening here and now? Don't be three steps ahead.

Don't fantasize and create a story of what could be. Really be in the now. And I believe that a lot of Carrie's responses have to do with these feelings of inadequacy and feelings that she's not good enough.

So what I see in Carrie is low self-worth. And when she plays these games, it's almost like a protection mechanism because she knows that she doesn't have that confidence.

So she plays these games and puts on these façades to protect that little girl who doesn't feel worthy of love.

Vana hitting with the truth. Okay, I kind of want to get to the last bit of what I think will be my favorite part of these episodes.

I'm going to ask you, if you were their dating coach, or their best friend, or their therapist, what would your advice be for each one of the girls for this episode?

And just so that we're all on the same page, I'm going to give a recap of what each one of the four was up to.

So we know Carrie was jumping around doing this experiment, trying to sleep with somebody that she was into, no strings attached, it's being big in the background, and she's trying to present this persona to him, but she, as you said, feels

inadequate even presenting that to a virtual stranger. Samantha's doing what Samantha does best, which is talking about sex like it is power, talking about how she's acting like a man, and for the first time ever, women in New York are having as much

sex with as much power as men. Charlotte is being very strict about how she dates, who she can date, and how they're supposed to act, and how she's supposed to act. And poor Miranda, I feel like I've completely neglected her.

But she's kind of this rampage where I think she feels so adequate about being such a feminist, so passionate about everything that's wrong with the patriarchy and men.

And she kind of takes or uses skipper as a scapegoat, and just takes everything out on the poor thing. And it's like, Oh, do you think that I'm not pretty enough to be this smart? Or do you think that I'm not smart enough to be this pretty?

What would be your dating coach slash best friend advice to each one of them after watching this episode?

OK, so I think we should start off with Carrie. She's the protagonist. So in my view, Carrie's pattern of keeping herself emotionally distant, as I mentioned, feels like a form of self protection.

But it's actually like limiting her ability to form these meaningful connections. So it's actually doing the opposite of what she wants to achieve. My advice to Carrie would be to lean into vulnerability.

Being vulnerable doesn't mean that she's weak, right? It just means like showing up authentically and like allowing these guys to actually see the real her. It almost feels like Carrie is an air sign, right?

She's like a Gemini or something. My advice would be like, if you're always halfway out the door, you'll miss out on the depth and intimacy that a real fulfilling relationship can offer.

So you shouldn't be two steps out the door every single time, Carrie. Be vulnerable, allow yourself to show up authentically, and let people see the real you, please. You're cool, you're cute, you're fun.

I'd rather see the real you.

Yeah.

Yeah. I want to see the real you. And you're not giving people a real opportunity to get to know you unless you show the full version of yourself.

Okay.

Great advice. Who's next?

Okay. So Samantha's next. I love Samantha.

Samantha sees sex as a source of her empowerment, and I do believe there's truth to that. But in my view, true empowerment also comes from being in touch with your emotional needs.

So there's an episode where Samantha gets sick and she has the flu, and she's not able to get anyone to take care of her. And in that episode, when she's chugging NyQuil, we actually see her emotional needs.

But I never really understand what Samantha's emotional needs are. So my advice to Samantha would be to just recognize that seeking love, intimacy, or emotional connection does not make you weak. It makes you human.

So balancing that emotional vulnerability with physical empowerment would give her this well-roundedness and a true sense of power. Because in her pursuit of purely physical relationships, I believe she gives away her power.

Another great piece of advice. All right. What would you tell?

Now, Charlotte?

Yes.

Okay.

So I have this sort of affinity towards Charlotte because I see a lot of my patterns in her. So she's probably the most difficult one for me to analyze.

But I would say that the rigidness of Charlotte's dating rules, sometimes protect her from getting hurt, but they also keep her closed to so many different potential relationships. So my advice to Charlotte is flexibility.

Charlotte's like a Virgo or something. She's like so organized and controlling and meticulous.

But it's really important to be flexible in dating because yes, it's great to have high standards, but being so strict can limit your opportunities for connection, right?

It's like traveling to Spain when you're on a low carb diet and not wanting to try any of the tapas. It's like, this is ridiculous. You're only in Spain for five days.

Can you just eat the tapas and chill? So I believe that the most meaningful experiences sometimes come from stepping outside of your comfort zone, right? And softening your approach to love.

So that would be my advice to Charlotte. It's just like, let off on the rules.

But without compromising on who she truly is.

Exactly. Keep your standards high, but start to be a little bit more flexible.

What about Miranda then?

Miranda. Miranda, Miranda, Miranda. So I always admire that feminist approach that Miranda has.

But I do think it's a really fine line because sometimes I feel that she doesn't treat people nicely. And there's something unkind about Miranda. So I think my advice to her would be to remember that strength and kindness aren't mutually exclusive.

Like, you can be strong and you can also be kind, Miranda. So you can strongly and firmly state your values, and explain what you stand for and defend your feminist beliefs, but you can still be respectful and considerate to others, right?

So I just believe that Samantha could be open to other perspectives, and then she will actually deepen her relationships long term if she does that.

Okay. And in this instance, do you think that maybe Miranda could have explored things with Skipper and knowing that that's not the guy for her, as long as she expressed things clearly?

Like, what do you think is that approach where I think everybody except Skipper knows that they're not meant to be, but she still goes there with him?

Yeah. I think that communication is really important. So setting the expectations would have changed everything, right?

And just communicating what you want and communicating what you're looking for, that can be the key to happiness, because then everyone knows where they stand. Right?

I think the hardest thing when it comes to dating, both in this case, Miranda and Skipper, but just in general, when I see this with my clients, is so much of our confusion and our stress and anxiety comes from not knowing where we stand.

So once you know where you stand, everything gets a lot easier.

I think that's it. Yeah. Thank you so much, Vana.

Thank you.

Thank you for having me. And I love this format. I love the Sex and the City style.

And I just think it's such a beautiful way to showcase how nuanced and different relationships can be. And there's vulnerability and self-protection, and power, and emotional needs, and rules, and hormones. There's just so much going on.

And I love that your podcast is helping people build those deeper and more fulfilling connections.

I mean, wait until we get into the And Just Like That part of this. Hopefully, we'll cover all six seasons and then go into that, and then explore sexuality in all its spectrum. But thank you so much, Vana.

This has all been great advice. Super informative. Anything that you want to plug in here for our listeners on where they can find you, if they want to pursue your services.

If they want to sign up for my beautiful dating matchmaking services, they can find me at vanacristina.com with no H.

So V-A-N-A-C-R-I-S-T-I-N-A. But you can just include that in the show notes.

I will include that in the show notes. Thank you so much, Vana. We'll see you again here soon, I'm sure.

And have a great day.