Season 1 Wrap-Up — Mr. Big Answers Everything, with Byron Rose

About This Episode

In the Season 1 finale of And Just Like That… We Found Therapy, host Isabel MV brings in her friend Byron Rose — a man who knows one of the real-life inspirations behind Mr. Big — to answer every question the season left open. Episode by episode, Byron plays devil's advocate, defends the indefensible, and occasionally just tells the truth about what men actually think. It is by turns infuriating, illuminating and surprisingly wise.

What We Cover

• Do men really want emotionally unavailable women — or is that just a trauma response dressed up as preference?

• The masculine and feminine energy dynamic: what happens when a woman chases, and why the chase needs to go the other way

• Modelizers and external validation: why the most beautiful women in the room can also be the most insecure

• Is sleeping with someone "too soon" still a thing? Byron's surprisingly modern take

• Why exclusivity conversations are less about who else he's seeing and more about knowing your own worth

• Threesomes in committed relationships: Byron calls it a red flag, full stop

• Settling vs. convenience: the seven-year relationship that's failing because attraction was never really there

• Performing perfection in a relationship — and why it's exhausting for both people

• Carrie crashing Mr. Big's church: whose boundary was violated and who actually caused the break-up?

• The real reason women chase avoidant men — and what it says about self-worth

• Byron's verdict on all four girls: their energy, their shields, and what a man actually sees

• The real Mr. Big: Byron has met him. You do not want to end up with him.

About Our Guest

Byron Rose is a close friend of Isabel's with a firsthand connection to one of the real-life inspirations behind Mr. Big, and an admitted obsession with masculine and feminine energy dynamics. He is not Mr. Big. He would like that noted for the record.

Transcript

Welcome back, guys. Welcome to another episode of And Just Like That We Found Therapy. This is the wrap up of season one.

And for this episode, I am so excited to have with me my very good friend, Byron Rose. I loved recording this episode, and I think I might try to do it for every season. But we'll see because I keep coming up with new ideas.

Thank you to everybody that joined me along the ride of this first season of my podcast. I'm so excited and proud that I made it here. I hope you enjoy this episode.

It was very fun to have Byron pretend that he was Mr. Big. Although, if I'm honest with you, I think that halfway through it, he just like, you know, went back to being his good old self.

But he's still great. So I hope you enjoy this episode. I might take a little break before we come out with season two.

But in the meantime, do not forget to rate me five stars, share with your friends and leave me any comments. I read all of them and it means the world to me. So thank you, everybody.

And I love y'all. I'll see you on the other side.

Bye.

Hello, everybody. And welcome to another episode of And Just Like That We Found Therapy. We have with us today Byron James Rose, also known as Mr.

Big for the purpose of this episode. How are you today?

Very good, Isabel. Thank you for having me on your podcast.

How does it feel to be an avoidant narcissist?

I'm speaking on behalf of Mr. Big today, and not as being the personality of Mr. Big.

Allegedly.

Yeah, exactly.

So I know that you're one of my biggest fans, so you obviously know all my episodes by heart.

You know Candice Bushnell personally.

I know one of the Mr. Bigs that she has created the character from. So yeah, firsthand experience of some of the episodes of Mr.

Big. I can see my friend being reflected in.

So Mr. Big is a compilation of several narcissists. Is that what you're saying?

He is a collection of relationships that she has had over the years.

I would say that.

Okay, interesting. I didn't know that. So today my mission is to get all the answers that we didn't get from Mr.

Big while recording these episodes. So I have all my questions.

And I haven't seen them.

You haven't seen them?

I haven't seen any of the questions.

Yes, episode by episode.

So we're going to fly by the seat of our pants here. And I'll answer as honestly as I can from information that I might know. But also that I am obsessed by the dynamic of the masculine and feminine energy in relationships.

Yes, you are.

And I've watched your relationships very carefully over the years.

And they're non-existent.

And how they've played out.

Yeah, always beautifully.

So anyway, starting from season one, episode one, where the question that guests asked over and over again is, do men really like their women promiscuous and emotionally unavailable?

That's a hard question. The answer is no. If a man does or is attracted to that type of personality type, it's highly unlikely that there's going to be a healthy relationship dynamic within that.

I agree.

But what do you say about men liking the chase?

I believe that a man in their masculinity should be doing the chasing and that the feminine should not be doing the chasing. Otherwise, there's an unhealthy dynamic within that.

So I would say that, yeah, you do have to, a man does have to pursue and does have to chase, but it has to be done in a healthy way. And there's a huge difference between the two.

So where does that leave women who, like somebody you know, can be very assertive and go after what they want?

The thing you got to be careful of, I believe, and we see this throughout Sex and the City, is if the feminine has got a masculine shield or is acting in their masculine energy, it can be a turn off for a man.

Would that maybe mean that they would, that would be the wrong man for them?

It could be the wrong man for them, but generally if the feminine does the pursuing, and the chasing, you're going to see time and time again that the man might enjoy it short term, but long term won't respect necessarily the dynamic of that

We're not chaotic.

And should be able to handle that.

Okay.

I'm talking about the feminine as a whirlwind of spontaneity and that divine feminine of being able to flip around, and do different things, and for the man to hold that space, not for the man to be avoidant, not for the man to display those types of

Yeah.

Okay, so long story short, we shouldn't be emotionally unavailable and promiscuous, but maybe do a bit more of stepping into the feminine energy if you want a masculine man of letting them do the work.

Yeah, you will have, you will either have a boy or you'll have a man.

If you have a boy, then they're going to be flipping around and they're not going to be, they're going to be looking to be idolized and they're going to look to be mothered or supported in a certain way.

Whereas a man confident, the most compelling, from what I've seen within relationships, if a man is very sure of themselves and can step into their power, know where they're going and can look at a woman and be loving, hold the space and also say,

you're what I want. Without a question, you're the girl for me, I want to be with you and there's no one else. And also stick to that, that that's actually true, then that is a rare commodity these days.

Yes, it is. Yeah, I agree. Okay, so then off to season one, episode two, Models and Mortals, where Carrie talks about the fact that New York is populated by well above average looking women and some men are modelizers and they only date models.

Do you think that men are indeed more focused on the looks and what do you think about men? Have you ever met a modelizer?

Yeah, I have.

What do you think goes on with that?

I think that, you know, if everything is external, and this is my issue with Carrie, she's very external. 40,000 pounds worth of shoes before she has an apartment.

I mean, I'm being glib, but you know, if everything is external and everything is about clothes or the right place to be or the right set or, you know, that will carry for a certain amount of time, but then that's very shallow.

You've got to be able to get underneath that.

And I'm not saying that possessions aren't important or whatever, but if you carry that into a relationship, then you can be with someone who might tick the boxes for having certain things or whatever it might be.

But then it's going to impact on the relationship.

You think it's going to be one-dimensional?

Very one-dimensional.

So, I mean, you turn this on to Carrie, but here we were talking about the men being obsessed with looks.

Men who are obsessed by looks and looking for a certain type, believe it or not, this is, this, I don't want to sound the wrong way, but some of the most beautiful women in the world can be some of the most insecure.

I agree.

And I've seen that time and time again. And actually, some women who are very attractive can become the most exquisite, attractive women that a man wants.

And that somebody who's incredibly beautiful can very rapidly turn, from the man's point of view, into a monster. And that's extreme. I'm saying that on purpose because that external validation and that external...

And a person who's, let's say, so beautiful that has never had to work for things or, you know, there's a certain dynamic that can happen, not with everyone, but can happen a lot of the time with that external validation.

Mm-hmm. What do you think about women that use their looks and attributes to get what they want?

I think that, you know, we all use what we have. It's a question of varying degrees and whether or not it's healthy or not.

A woman should be able to, you know, be what she wants to, look how she wants to, can put herself out there, but you can see in someone whether it's a healthy... when they're putting themselves out there, whether it's healthy or unhealthy.

And you can see that in the dynamic of how they are with a room full of people.

If they need the attention, if they need the validation, if someone needs validation, then it's, from my experience, can be a very unhealthy dynamic because they're not getting it from you. They need to get it from someone.

So, you think that maybe women who are used on relying on their physical attributes might need external validation about how pretty they are more often, and that can develop an unhealthy habit.

Yeah, because if you're told from a very young age, you're so beautiful, you're so pretty.

Do you think that men that do the push and pull are not interested? Because in this episode where I think, you know, Carrie and the girls go to see a fashion show, and Mr.

Big is with a model, and you can see that they're starting to flirt, but he gives one thing, takes away another. Like, there's a lot of push and pull.

And there's this narrative right now on the internet that says, when a man wants you and if a man wants you, he'll make it happen. There won't be any kind of push and pull.

Totally.

Do you think, like, sometimes, like, what about timing?

Generally, if a man really is into a woman and really admires her, then it'll be super clear and they will make it, you know, it'll be a natural, beautiful dance that happens.

So in the debate of whether men are like taxes, like, taxis, not like taxes, that they, that they, their light turns on green and whoever jumps on that cab gets him, it's more true than... Do you know what I mean?

I don't know where I was going with that. But basically, my question is that sometimes-

When they're single and when they're on their own.

If they're single and they're on their own, but like maybe, I don't know, Mr. Big in this scenario, he was like super avoidant and unavailable because he had just been through a divorce.

And I think it took him some carry pushing him to getting to know her for him to realize, okay, fine, I'm in.

Yeah, but carry pushes and is controlling, wants to control the situation.

Yeah.

And tries to convince him that it's right a lot of the time within the dynamic of the relationship.

Yeah.

And doesn't have healthy boundaries to be able to say, no, that doesn't work.

Yes.

Rather than allowing him to remain Peter Pan-like within the relationship and dominate how he wants it to be without committing. So he's an avoidant. He's a total avoidant.

Why are we all attracted to avoidance at some time in our lives within a relationship? Somebody who doesn't really commit or somebody that flip-flops.

What is that that says in ourselves that potentially our self-esteem is low and therefore we will put up with somebody who's not committing to us? Is that a reflection of our own commitment to ourselves?

I think that's a reflection of somebody that doesn't rely or doesn't trust their own judgment to deem themselves good enough. You need that hard approval to give you the permission to say, I am good enough.

And it should, in a relationship, it should be there. You should be able to, you know, you should be able to support your partner both ways at different times depending how the flow is going.

But if you are an avoidant in a relationship and somebody is anxiously attached, that dynamic is, can lead to a very toxic relationship. And I think, you know, the relationship between Mr. Big and Carrie is a lot of the time pretty toxic.

Yes, it is.

But where do you stand? Like, do you think that then women who bring it upon themselves to turn a fuckboy into a boyfriend is the last cause? Or do you think that there's...

Because here, the term fuckboy didn't exist, but like, for all purposes, Mr. Big was a fuckboy.

Well, was he or was he just totally avoidant of commitment?

Potato, potato, same thing, ish. I think his ways were a bit more refined, but he... fine, he was extremely avoidant, and she managed to get him there, which is the point of my podcast.

Is that a lost cause? Is this pure fiction?

But you're saying she got him there.

Anyone who wants to convert somebody that is a certain way is not going to be successful with them, unless that individual is owning their shit, going into serious therapy, working on themselves, looks at themselves and says, oh my god, I'm playing

around, I'm not being honorable within the relationship, I'm not being truthful, and I want to change internally. If somebody believes they're going to change somebody, that might happen short term, but the change will not stay.

It has to come from within. It's the same with carrying her boundaries. If she was stronger and didn't put up with a lot of the shit, then they might have had a very different relationship.

She's high on the roller coaster.

Yes, she does.

On the ups and downs and the drama within a relationship. But if you get onto that, it's not a good thing within a relationship.

It can be fun and feel slightly out of control, but it's an unhealthy dynamic, rather than a healthy dynamic of saying, this is what I want, this is how I want it.

If you don't want to play this way, I totally respect that, but that's what works for me. And if you set that up, a surety in a relationship is the most compelling thing to have.

If you're really sure of yourself, how you stand, what you want, and you put it forward, then the other person will respect you for that. They might not agree. They might sometimes get upset.

But it's a very compelling thing to have within a relationship.

Yeah. So, okay, then on to episode 3, The Bay of Married Pigs. I have a very simple question here, because I think Mr.

Big doesn't appear. But there is a lot of talk about men who cheat.

Do you think that maybe, because I watched this episode, and there seemed to be a lot of mediocre marriages that were just together because, and men who cheated and women who looked the other way.

Do you think that that is still the case in this day and age? Or do you think that now people are a lot quicker to get divorced and rebuild?

Yeah, I think it's fundamentally changed. It used to be acceptable in some countries to have a mistress and to play around. And that dynamic, I believe, has fundamentally changed.

And that's why relationships don't last for so long. If somebody is not loyal in a relationship, then you will be able to energetically feel that and something will be off.

Do you think that there is anything enticing for men to cheat?

No, I don't.

Okay.

I really don't. Because, you know, if your makeup supports that and you enjoy that, then you're cheating in all areas of your life.

Okay. So then, episode four is The Valley of the 20-something Guys. In this episode, Carrie meets a 20-something-year-old guy and she is supposed to have a drink thing with Mr.

Big. Mr. Big bails last minute, and then he appears at the place where they're supposed to be meeting, and because she thought he wasn't coming, she is holding the 20-something-year-old's tongue.

So do you think that there's something about making a man feel like, hey, maybe someone else wants me? Do you think that that is a valid, I don't want to say, like, a strategy, but, like...

Yeah, I do. If you fawn over one person energetically, are so obsessed by one person, and you're not open, if you're open and you're confident, then naturally other men will come to you and talk to you and engage with you.

It's then up to the individual who is pursuing you or wants to go out with you or is going with you to be able to hold that space and to be able to say, yeah, the woman I'm with is beautiful and they will get admired by other men.

That is a good and a healthy dynamic. It doesn't generally happen unless a man is fully in their power. And for the feminine to be able to be admired by other men is not a bad thing.

It's just a question of if they have boundaries, to then be able to say, thank you, you're admiring me, whatever, but you know what, I'm very happy and I'm in a relationship.

Or not to then flip into the toxic feminine, which is I need to be idolized by men, I need to be flirted with, I need to have multiple relationships potentially to validate myself. That's where it can get toxic.

And what do you think about women who use other men to make the men they're interested in jealous?

There's a fine line. There's a fine line on that.

Sounds pretty toxic to me, but I'm happy.

But a man has to realize that a woman can be admired by other women and then has to be comfortable in themselves to know that they are good enough to be able to have this woman and to provide for this woman and to make it compelling enough to keep

that woman. If they're flipping, flopping around, if they're away, if they're avoidant, then there's going to be a problem within that relationship, because eventually a woman will be looking at another man thinking, well, actually, why am I putting

Yeah.

Which happened to her many times, right?

Yeah.

That's why she ended up in bed with many different men.

I think she was just trying to push herself to keep her options open, which she does in the next episode, which is called The Power of Female Sex, where they talk a lot about women who use their attributes to get what they want, and Carrie gets

confused or gets paid a thousand bucks for sleeping with this French dude that is an architect, or something like that. So, you've kind of mentioned that women who use their attributes to get things...

Attached.

Yeah. But like, you know that I come from the business corporate world.

I do, indeed.

And it sometimes does open doors to lean into the feminine side. You also have worked in corporate settings. What do you think if you see a woman use that for her advantage?

I usually see that it creates issues and problems.

I've seen you in work. I've done, you know, business with you. And you're incredibly, you're incredibly...

Charming.

No, you're boundaried.

You're in your feminine. But you're never giving off something that is inappropriate, from my experience.

It's true.

I've then been in other situa... In fact, if anything, you have a masculine shield within business, which isn't a bad thing. Yeah.

It's not a bad thing at all. I've been in situations in business with women who are the opposite of that. And you can literally smell it.

You can smell it a mile off. You can see if somebody is trying to use... I've been in a relationship with someone that used to be like that.

And, you know, the relationship ended terribly because they needed the validation.

Yeah.

And in business, crossed the line in many situations and got herself into situations where it's not my fault, you know.

Yeah.

She used to say. But if you give off a certain vibe to try and progress in some way, Yeah. Men are really dumb.

We are really, you know, we're like really stupid. It's like if we see a signal or a sign, we take it at face value. It's very hard for us to compute other ways.

So, you know, you have to, the feminine energy is the most powerful force there is.

Yeah.

And it can be used and abused, and it can come back to hurt the feminine as well. So, you know, it's divine. It's, ultimately, it's divine.

And refreshing, especially in a corporate world.

I do think it's refreshing to have somebody who's not a boring white male in a blue suit. I'm sorry. Okay.

So, season one, episode six, which is called Secret Sex. I have two questions about this because in this episode, Carrie is going out for real on a date with Mr. Big, is their first date, and Carrie wears the naked dress.

And she's dying to sleep with him, but she tries to deny herself from that. They go out, they're supposed to go to dinner, and they end up sleeping together before dinner. Then Mr.

Big takes her out to a Chinese place, and she gets in her head that it's going to become a sex thing because she slept too soon with him. And then he keeps her a secret. That's what she's seeing because that's mostly in her head.

He then explains everything. But do you think that there's something about a woman being intimate with a man too soon that some men see as, okay, this is not something serious?

No.

Case by case.

Total, total case by case. Because that's the old way. You hold back, you wait until you check out the room.

But in modern days, I think that's-

Bullshit.

Yeah, I call that out.

Okay.

From talking to people and understanding, you ask most people how they got together. These days, it's pretty rapid.

Yeah. What about then the other storyline is Carrie's friend who she runs into at this Chinese restaurant. That's why she gets the idea that Mr.

Big is ashamed of being seen with her. So this friend of Carrie is sleeping with this woman who has a very simplistic job and she's very sweet, but like he thinks she's not good enough for him.

What do you think goes on, on a man's mind, like a man like this mind, that they have a good relationship where they can be themselves, they have good sex, they have a good rapport with a person, but they just don't want to make it like their

That's case by case and it's that to me sounds like a very young relationship.

Also a very young man.

It sounds like a boy that doesn't know what he wants.

Exactly that.

Okay, so episode 7, The Monogamists. How do you think exclusivity should be approached in early stages? Because I think this is the episode where Carrie's super happy about the fact that Mr.

Big and her are a thing. They've had a first discussion about, he's just getting to know her and he's not keeping her hidden, and they're getting to know each other.

But he runs into him on another date, and she says, the thought of seeing somebody else, like, set me on a loop. How is he dating more women?

And they go to a party and she creates a scene where she was like, how many more women are you seeing exactly?

There's this woman from the restaurant, Julia, that has your passport, so you know her internationally, like, exactly how many women are you seeing? How do you think you can navigate that now?

I think that that sounds like a very insecure dynamic within a relationship.

And rather than her focusing on other women, it's a question of, do I value myself to be the one and to set up parameters to say, if you're seeing me, you're seeing me exclusively, and you're not seeing other people, rather than who you're seeing.

Tell me about May and Jemima, and you know what I mean? It's like, you know what I mean?

If you go, and then you're going around the back door to try and find other people that he's being with or that he's with, and it's once again not fronting up and being honest and saying, this is what I stand for. I won't accept anything else.

And who gives a fuck about anyone else who you've been with in the past or in the recent past, as long as you're going to commit to me?

But do you think that it's fair to say that maybe when you're getting to know someone, it's unfair to ask of them to only see you?

It depends how you feel about that person. It depends how into them you are. It depends how honorable you are.

It depends if you can hold multiple relationships and not be in relationships. That sounds to me very Peter Pan. That sounds to me very immature and very boyish, rather than actually saying, you know what?

We're going to be together. I'm going to commit to you. I value you and let's give this a go and let's not be with other people.

That's a very strong masculine trait to be able to say to a woman that I don't see that often these days. I see a lot of people saying, Yeah, well, we'll just try it out and we'll see. And I got these other things going on.

I see a lot of Mr. Bigs out there.

Yeah.

As you do. I know. I know you do.

Yeah.

Okay. So the next episode is Three Is a Crowd and it's all about threesomes. Do you think that maybe a man that wants a threesome with their significant other is kind of like a red flag?

If they're in a monogamous relationship, do you think that it's like a cover of like on board?

I have a friend who was tested by his girlfriend in this particular area. And I have another friend from the other side that also tested in this area. I think it's a red flag.

I really do. I think that's a no-go area. If you're serious about someone, if you respect someone, I think it's very...

If the other person does not fancy that.

I just think that gluttony, multiple, you know, it's very easy.

You're going Bible on me.

No, I'm not.

Literally, I promise you I'm not. I'm just... Where's the respect?

So if you had a partner that you were keen on, you explored that, okay?

The thing is that I'm very old school.

At the beginning of the relationship.

Yeah.

Would you be happy being in a relationship and doing that on a weekly basis? Do you think?

No, but that's just me. But...

There's a lot of people who might feel that way. And sometimes a partner could get swayed by the other partner that wants to explore.

If the other person wants to explore and not have, you know, have multiple relationships, sexually or whatever, they can do that. But then that's totally back to boundaries. You know, this is my boundary.

I want us to respect each other. I want us to love each other in a certain way. It's totally back to boundaries.

Okay.

I think we're too conservative for this conversation, but fine. Then The Turtle and the Hare is Episode 9.

And I think in this episode, they try to talk about how maybe some women, when they get to a point where they're tired of dating, they can actually settle for someone that doesn't make them excited, and they can try to make them into a fixer-upper,

i.e. change them into the man that they think they can look up to and respect. Do you think that that is... What?

Settling?

A woman is settling for something less.

In this episode, Samantha goes out with somebody who is so not her type. Like, he is boring, he doesn't know how to dress, he has bad breath. But she thinks that if she can dress him up in helmet, blang, and take...

That's very common, especially if you've been hurt.

But don't you think that that is like a setup for resentment and like a...

I do.

But there's many people that settle and are in relationships for other reasons than having that connection or really wanting to be with that person.

I got a real live example of it currently with a friend who compromised, was with a person for safety and for financial benefit.

Convenience.

Convenience and the relationship after seven years is fundamentally failing now. And they're looking and go, how? How could I have got to this place?

Yeah.

You know, why am I with this?

Why am I with this person? And you've got to have attraction. You've got to have respect.

Yes.

You need that spark.

But on the flip side, you've got to be careful that it's not lust and it's not a roller coaster and it's not touching on toxic. It's a fine line.

It's a fine line. I've heard that so many times in this podcast. Okay.

So then there's the baby shower that there's nothing relevant for Mr. Big in this episode. Then there's the drought, season one, episode 11.

So in the drought, Carrie and Mr. Big look in this blissful honeymoon period where they have like their own rituals and they have sleepovers. Although it's always Carrie staying with Mr.

Big. And one morning Carrie farts and she cannot forgive herself for that. The whole episode is about how she reads into every time that she gets rejected by him in bed after that incident and thinks it's because of that.

And she's talking to Miranda and she's saying like, oh, I can't believe it. Like now he sees me as one of the boys and like, I'm exhausted from having to put up this act every day, every hour that I'm with him because I need to be perfect.

And Miranda is like, why do you have to be perfect? Like this version of Carrie is pretty fucking cool. Why don't you show him this?

She's like, you don't understand. He's a perfect man in his perfect Park Avenue apartment with his perfect bathrobes and his perfect suits. He cannot know that I'm less than perfect.

Which is one of her biggest problems.

Yes.

She's seeking perfection and she's not being her full self.

Yes.

Okay.

Farting is just, you know, is one...

It's a human thing....

is one thing with her, but she's so, you know, she runs away, right?

Yeah, she runs away and she's like, yeah, she's like, no, no, no, yes.

Because she's trying to project an external perfection that doesn't exist.

And it's not sustainable.

Yeah.

And if she was cooler, man, if some days, you know, beautiful clothes, nice shoes, whatever, some days she just wore a shitty pair of jeans and a t-shirt and chilled out a bit, and was like more present and not trying to be something to strive this

Yeah.

How present actually, you know, is she?

Not very much.

So would you have done like Mr. Big and get a whoopee cushion to play a practical joke on him? I think that's a great way to like address it.

Make it into a fun and also say to her, hey, listen, you know, don't worry.

It's cool.

Do you see right through women who are way too performative?

I didn't.

That's why you didn't.

I didn't, but such a bad place to go. If you're in a relationship with someone who has to perform, you're fucked.

Yeah.

Like literally, it can destroy you, because you can, you're always on eggshells.

You're always, you know, and when you're out and the performer is performing and is getting idolized, it actually made me, it made me in one of my relationships into a very anxiously attached, like hugely so in a, in a really, you know, a deeply

That's interesting, because if I picture a relationship where a man is so lazy that he cannot see a woman being performative 24 seven around him, that to me is a very comfortable man that doesn't overthink.

I think I feel more for the woman that is just like getting herself into a life where there is no room for her to be herself. Like you've already set it up for you to be perfect.

Do you know how exhausting it is to perform?

Yes, I do. Have you met me?

I mean, literally, it is absolutely exhausting. So in a relationship, you can both perform.

Yes.

And it's important.

Were you performing in that relationship and is that why you became anxiously attached?

Yeah, there was a competitive performance part of it.

On who was more perfect?

Definitely not perfect. I never, ever believe I'm perfect in any way at all.

But performances, it's okay if you go out and you're going to a party and yeah, both of you can switch it on and you can have fun and meet people and, I'm not talking about life and soul, but it's okay.

But if you're like that all the time, it can be exhausting. It really can. And if the other person continuously needs validation, then you get exhausted too.

That becomes unattractive after a while. No matter how beautiful the person is, no matter how special or talented they are, if someone's always performing, then it skews the relationship.

Okay. We're off to the last episode of the season. And this is such a sad episode.

This is the episode where Carrie injects herself into a church to meet Mr. Big's mom, even after Mr. Big told her straight up, that is something that I do with my mother.

So you're not welcome. And he says, but how about we go to the Caribbean? I'll cover all the costs as long as you buy me a margarita or a pina colada as soon as we get to St.

Kitts or whatever. And she's like, cool, cool. She takes that as a, I'm not in, and makes her her business to go with Miranda to the church, and then drops the Bible in the middle of the service.

He sees her, the mother sees her. So she waits at the end of the service to say like, hi, I'm Carrie. And she sees that her mother has no reaction to that.

Like, I have no idea what that name is. And she's like, I'm Carrie Carrie. Like, maybe you don't know that I'm his girlfriend, but I'm his girlfriend.

And she's just like, cool, bye. Mr. Big has a conversation with her being like, listen, my mom doesn't need to meet another girlfriend.

Sorry, I didn't mean it like that. We have this trip. Let's talk about it while we're away.

Can't wait to see you. And then she is all packed. He comes to pick her up.

She looks at him and she says, you told me to have faith that you can get to where I need you to be, but my faith is failing. Give me a sign. Tell me I'm the one.

And he can't. And they break up. And that's the end of season one.

What do you think goes on in Mr. Big's mind?

Romeo and Juliet.

It's not even Romeo and Juliet. Honestly, doing this episode...

It is in a toxic way.

It's not. I thought Mr. Big wanted to be really integral to his beliefs.

He didn't want to compromise on being honest. Watching it, I think, girl, you think that by his mother being like, oh, you're Carrie, it means that he loves you. Maybe worry about the fact that you don't even know what relationship they have.

Maybe it's a relationship where he doesn't talk about things until he's ready to ask about her. Don't insert yourself. In season one, Mr.

Big looks like a person that is very honest with her, saying, I had a divorce, never want to get married again. I'm getting to know you. I thought we were having fun.

So I don't think he's so toxic in this first season. I might gaslighting myself.

No, I think that Cary once again wants to control the situation.

Yeah.

And she doesn't respect his boundaries because her boundaries are weak.

Yeah.

Could you imagine doing that? Being concerned about the relationship?

You know I've done a lot of work. Like maybe 10, 15 years ago, I could have done something crazy like that, and I would do it for the story.

But doing it, going because of the mother side, and he's already said that, and then getting an outcome, because he'll feel bad.

I'll spoil you and I'll take you somewhere very, very material, and it's going to cost a lot of money, and that validates her. Could you imagine if she played that totally differently and said, I totally respect that.

Whenever you're ready, by the way, I'm too busy, I'm off doing my own thing. If she had her own interests that she was doing that were healthy, and not worrying about Mr.

Big and his mother relationship, eventually, he would have come around and introduced possibly. Or if he didn't, then she set her boundaries, and she knows that there's an issue around it.

But trying to force anything in a relationship, and trying to push the other person when they've set a boundary, is fundamental to a healthy relationship.

Yeah.

I mean, going there and meeting the mother, of course you can get that reaction. It's like, have you ever chased a man?

Probably.

And gone round to his house? When it's not expecting? You haven't?

No.

Oh my god.

I've sung outside windows to women.

Yeah, but it's okay for you to do that, because they put it in High Fidelity, or whatever movie it was. We were, that's not what we do.

That's back to the masculine and the feminine chase.

Yeah.

What is it with the feminine chasing a man, that is so off-putting? I'm interested, I know from a man side, but I want to know from the feminine side, how does it feel for you?

When you're pursuing and chasing a man, how does it actually feel for you?

I always have this inner dialogue, when I decide to maybe be a bit more forthcoming, that I know what I want, I'm going to go after it, and if it's a no, at least I've tried. But it fucking stings.

Byron, I see you as a chaser anyway.

It's not a chaser.

You value yourself too much to actually pursue and to...

It's not a chaser....

and to run around to someone's house when you're not invited. Of course. Or church.

I would never.

I always want to be invited, and I want to feel wanted. But I do feel like sometimes, you know how they say, like, fine, you know, like, men like the chase, but sometimes you need to give them a wink-wink of like, it's okay for you to approach me.

And coming back to your point where you said that men are so dumb, maybe sometimes I make it very obvious. And when that's not picked up, that stinks.

That's good as well. I mean, that's what you said is totally, totally valid.

But I will, I will tell you this one anecdote. When I was like probably 22 or 23, fresh, new in London, I was at Cuckoo Club. I don't know if you remember that club.

Probably still there and swallow street off Regent Street.

Still there.

I was very drunk. And you know that I think of myself sometimes like as a very toxically masculine man. And there was this-

A strong feminine, I would put it.

Yeah.

There was this bouncer who looked Turkish or something that was so handsome. And I could barely put two words together. That's how drunk I was.

And I still managed to say, you're the kind of handsome that needs to be made a big deal of.

I think that's nice.

Well, he told me that I should go home.

Yeah, but he's a bouncer. You've got to pick your battles. I mean, he's a bouncer.

And how many times a night is he going to be spoken to?

Like that?

Thinking that someone wants to get in or whatever.

I was already in.

That's a nice compliment.

That is the best compliment. I still get tongue-tied when I said, I don't know how I managed to say it so eloquently.

Yeah, that's pretty cool, I'd say.

That is one in a lifetime kind of compliment.

But he was gay.

I don't think so. But yeah, that got me nowhere. And yeah, there's more where that came from.

But that was one where I was very obviously pursuing and nothing happened.

That's hilarious. I love it.

All right. So I think this is it for the season.

Oh, wow. Amazing. I just want to say I think it's incredible what you're doing.

I think so too.

You're very good at what you do.

It's fascinating. And I think go more also into that masculine and effeminate dynamic, because it is intriguing. It really is.

I will ask you two last questions.

Yeah, sure.

First question.

What do you think is the best advice out there for a carry?

For a carry? Go to therapy.

Okay. For a carry that has been to therapy. Like, maybe somebody that keeps trying.

It's self-awareness and it's self-confidence, you know, and it's taking your focus off another person and putting it on yourself.

Her being so...

The more you feel maybe snided by the man, the more you need to put that energy on to making your life better.

Yeah, so kick-ass, so amazing. My daughter's doing this at the moment. She's recently broken up.

The guy broke up with her. Don't get me on that. They've broken up many times.

And she's totally focusing on herself. She's trained to teach yoga. She's working in a private members club.

She's got a lot of friends. She's focusing in on herself, rather than saying...

Going over...

Mr. Big is going to come back. It was my fault.

I'm not good enough. I'm going to go to church and hunt him down. I'm going to go...

You know what I mean? That's a fine line. And you know what's happened?

Sure as hell. Who's been calling her up? Drunk and saying, I made a mistake.

I want you back. And that's when I say to you, your boundaries have got to be like...

Bulletproof.

Strong as a motherfucker. You literally have to stand on your own feet and say, you know what? On several occasions, you've let me down.

And I'm not accepting that. I'm not going to be in a relationship like that. And you say you're working on yourself and you're in therapy.

Go away and prove it.

Yeah.

I'll see you in a year's time.

Okay. Fuck. That in 18 year olds is like 10 years.

Yeah.

Okay.

Then I'm sorry. I'm going to ask all the girls, like, what would you, what would your advice be for Charlotte? That is, like, just obsessed about getting married and like, having that as a status thing and the rules and...

Charlotte's very feminine.

Yeah.

You love that. But like, to the point where she does not know what she wants.

There's a real attraction with Charlotte.

From you.

She's deeply feminine. She's a little unsure. So a masculine man likes to step into that.

Yeah, that's bullshit.

Like, this is the image of the helpless woman.

No, not helpless.

She pretends to be helpless.

But she's not.

Yeah.

She's not.

But honestly, I can't.

I know you don't like her because you don't relate to her. Because you're as far away from Charlotte as can be. And you're probably more like Carrie, dare I say.

I have always owned up to the fact that I'm a Carrie that has gone through therapy and has done a lot of work.

Okay.

Yeah, I think like I love Charlotte as a friend, but I don't like the way that Charlotte approaches relationships.

Like I think it's very one-dimensional and very.

One-dimensional and simple, right?

Yeah. It's a one ticket to be in a wasp and having a comfortable life where she does not need to think. Do we have to say that?

It's like, there's a balance.

Yeah. We want a little bit of this and we want a little bit of that. We don't want too much of the crazy and we want more of this.

And there's a halfway house. And I think you could see that. If you look at all the girls, the characters are extreme on purpose.

Yeah.

Each one is very extreme.

Big is extreme. Yeah. Although, I have to say, having spent time with Mr.

Big, the real Mr. Big, there's this fairy tale around Mr. Big and her ending up with him, which actually...

It's not true.

You do not want to be...

I assure you, I know Mr. Big. You don't want to end up with Mr.

Big. I know what he's doing now and how he is and what his relationships are like. So do you know what I mean?

Yeah, and apparently he's a lot worse in real life.

A hundred times worse.

Okay.

Fine. So you just would keep Charlotte being like, hey, you do you. You're doing it right.

No, I think if she became self-confident in herself, went inward a little bit, became a little bit more relaxed, not so seeking perfection, or this ultimate external thing that's going to save her, whether it's shoes or clothes or the best restaurant

Okay.

What about Samantha? Somebody who's very emotionally unavailable?

Who fucks around?

Yeah. Very straightforward about it.

So in my eye, I mean, Samantha is the least attractive of all the women to me, because she's deeply in her masculine.

And you like a nurturing woman.

So I might like a little bit of that, but if they get too clingy or too on top of me, I'm literally, you know, I'm running.

Yeah.

And I become totally avoidant. So, you know, every man wants that to a certain degree, but it's once again, it's back to...

It's a fine line.

It's a fine line.

Okay. And what about Miranda? Somebody who seems to be too good for her to be decked around by any man, doesn't...

she has very masculine energy too.

Well, she's got, rather than Samantha, who's acting in my view as a man, very, very, you know, actually her energy is male.

Yeah.

I think she has a shield. So I think she's feminine, but I think she's got a big shield up, and that's what, you know, she pushes certain things away because of the fear around it.

Okay. So that's it for season one.

Amazing. Thank you so much for having me on. Amazing what you're doing.

Keep on going. And keep on going to the therapy as well.

Oh, you know I do. But thank you so much, Mr. Big, for making this a priority today.