You Can't Run From Your Problems, Trey's Impotence & Why Samantha's Met Gala Moment Reveals Everything — S3E13 with Dr. Melissa Richman

About This Episode

In Season 3 episode thirteen of And Just Like That… We Found Therapy, host Isabel MV is joined by LA-based psychotherapist and relationship expert Dr. Melissa Richman to unpack Sex and the City's "Escape from New York." It's the episode where Carrie flees to LA to escape the Aidan fallout, meets Matthew McConaughey at Warner Bros, and realises she can't outrun herself. Charlotte discovers Trey is physically capable of an erection — just not with her. Miranda rides a mechanical bull at a dive bar and is completely disconnected from every second of it. And Samantha meets Mr. Dildo, who wants to read her poetry and move to New York for her.

Listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or watch on Youtube.

What We Cover

• Can you outrun your problems with a plane ticket? Why the whole episode is about escape — and why it never works

• Trey's erectile dysfunction is psychogenic, not physical: what nocturnal penile tumescence actually tells us, and why Bunny is the real diagnosis

• The Madonna-whore complex and what happens when a man hasn't individuated from his mother

• Charlotte measuring Trey's erection with a strip of stamps at 3am: valid clinical method or act of desperation?

• Why Carrie couldn't get over Big — and what it means when you can't let go of someone until you understand what they gave you that you haven't developed in yourself

• The high of an affair: adrenaline, oxytocin and why the lows are always lower than the highs are high

• Miranda on the mechanical bull: stepping outside your comfort zone or performing for the male gaze?

• LA vs New York vs Europe: how different cities treat desire, sex and authenticity — and why Dr. Richman thinks LA is, frankly, a bit gross

• Samantha's Met Gala moment: the shadow side of someone who claims to be fully sexually liberated

• What happens when Samantha pictures being seen in public with Mr. Dildo — and what her horror actually says about her

• Why Dr. Richman doesn't believe polyamory works for most couples, and what that's really about

• True growth requires tolerating discomfort: what Carrie's observing ego was starting to understand by the pool

About Our Guest

Dr. Melissa Richman is a licensed psychotherapist known as “the relationship expert” based in Los Angeles. Find her at richmancare.com and on Instagram at @DrMelissaRichman. All links in the show notes.

Transcript

Welcome back, Boundary Babes. This week's episode brings a very special guest, my good friend Casey's cousin, who just happens to also be the perfect guest for this episode. Dr.

Melissa Richman is a licensed psychotherapist, coined the relationship expert and based in LA, where this episode takes place. Dr.

Richman and I get into whether or not it is possible to outrun your problems, erectile dysfunction, what's behind Samantha's dissing of Mr.

Dildo, and whether or not Miranda jumping on that mechanical ball was her pushing outside of her comfort zone or just performance for the male gaze. I hope you enjoy it. I'll see you on the other side.

I love y'all. Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of And Just Like That We Found Therapy. I am your host, Isabem V.

And I am delighted to be joined today by Dr. Melissa Richman. She is a psychotherapist based in Los Angeles known as the relationship expert.

But most importantly, she is Casey's cousin who has brought numerous guests to this show. So thank you very much, Melissa. How are you?

I'm wonderful.

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

And I'm very excited to have you on today because we are here to unpack season 3, episode 13 of Sex and the City Escape from New York. And I've been looking for the perfect guest and you're it. Okay.

Let's get into it. So we open with a scene of Carrie smoking in her apartment, looking out of the window and saying that New York, rainy, gray, miserable because she had just broken up with Aiden after she finally fests up to have an affair with Big.

And she's just like that was part of the reason why I was leaving town and she's packing up before the girls all meet for brunch the next day.

Everybody's going to LA, but Charlotte, who has recently married and she just came back from her honeymoon with Trey in Bermuda. And then Miranda, Samantha leave Carrie and Charlotte alone. And they're like, okay, so how are you?

And it's like, great. And you? Great.

And then they finally open up and she was like, we didn't have sex at all during our honeymoon. We tried twice, failed. He couldn't get it up.

And Carrie says, I told Aiden about the affair. He broke up with me. You win.

My first question to you is, at this stage, do you think that Trey is impotent? If your girlfriend told you at this stage, like we tried to have sex before the wedding, he couldn't get it up. And now we've been on our honeymoon.

He couldn't get it up.

Well, here's the deal. Yes, he's impotent, but he's not impotent from a medical perspective or a hormonal perspective. He's impotent because he has mommy issues.

And he basically...

Is that tied into the Madonna whore complex? Mommy issues at...

Can be for sure. So he's too close to his mother in a really messed up way. So he's not available to be married and he's not available to be intimate.

And so his issues and his erection is that the erectile dysfunction is psychogenic. And what that means is it's all in his mind. You know the book, The Body Keeps the Score?

So his body is expressing... It's a psych book about emotional trauma, that our body keeps the trauma and all the feelings before we're able to express it.

So he basically can get it up when he's unconscious or sleeping, but he can't get it up in real time because he's basically checked out. So he doesn't know how to really be a man yet because he's still a boy.

And Bunny's got way too much control over him. So he basically needs a lot of therapy and maybe he can fix it, but it's definitely not physical. Where, like some men, it can be fixed with Cialis or, you know, Viagra.

That's medication.

Yeah.

Yes. This is a whole different story. And it's a problem and she's just absolutely like, oh my God, but she's going to try to fix it.

And that's what Bunny does is tries to fix everything. So he doesn't have to grow up and be a man and feel anything. And you know, classic mommy issues pretty much.

I don't think anyone has ever explained it so straightforward.

So thank you for that.

I'm kind of numb.

Yeah.

I call it like it is.

I love that. Carrie also says that part of the reason why she's going to LA to explore how they might option her columns is because she just needs to get away from it all.

And I kind of want to ask you as a psychotherapist, do you think that sometimes when we have such a thing blow up in our faces, where we have been the source of the issue, do you think that a trip like that is good to gain perspective or is it

Avoidance.

You know, the whole episode is about escape, right?

Yes.

Carrie escapes to LA and her whole story becomes, you know, the manifestation of escape. And certainly when she goes to the studio, Miranda's escaping, Charlotte's escaping by trying to fix everything.

And Carrie's narration, her storytelling is all escape. So she's trying to get on a plane to escape, but right, the story is wherever you go, there you are. So you can't escape, but she's trying.

And unfortunately, the whole episode is about, you can't run from your problem. So you can't run and get away. You know, maybe it's like a little bit of a high, but you're gonna land and you're gonna have to face your shit.

Basically.

Yeah. I guess it would have been different if she was like traveling to just give herself some breathing space. Because sometimes I feel like I am so absorbed by my routine that I cannot think about anything.

So if she were taking a trip to just like think about things and sort out her shit, maybe that's good. But because this was...

If she had flown to Hawaii and alone and sat on a beach for a week and no storytelling, she'd have to sit in her pain. And the problem with the whole episode, even though we love it, is nobody's sitting in any of their discomfort.

But that's the show, you know.

Yeah. After that, the girls are going to go out. And I love this because it's the iconic scene where Carrie is wearing two different colored shoes.

They realize that they're three hours late for a cocktail hour. But still, Samantha manages to pick up a dildo model. And Miranda meets Mr.

Dick, who is this cute guy, and they're having some banter back and forth. And the guy is just like laughing at everything that Miranda says. It's just like, it's just so great to speak to a woman that is smart.

And Miranda tries to finish that thought. And Mr. Dick gets distracted by this bombshell that is like all boobs and like sex out there.

As somebody who's based in LA and has been so for many years, do you think that it is that harsh indeed in LA? And that looks maybe matter more so than anywhere else in the US., probably?

I absolutely do. You know, unfortunately, LA is all about appearance. And I think men love smart women, but you have to be hot.

And you have to be pretty. And, you know, they're not going to go there if you're just a smart girl. And I think Miranda really struggles with that.

So she tries to, you know, compensate and she gets on the bull. And she's completely disconnected from that in herself. And obviously, she would be devastated because the idea is, right, we want to be loved for all of the parts of ourselves.

But Miranda isn't hot. So she's struggling. And she tries very hard to compensate for that.

But, you know, I don't know. It's sad. But LA is that, you know.

LA is fantasy. LA is silly. It's escape.

But it's real. I mean, I think New York is different. I think New York is more gritty and reality different than LA.

LA is superficial, for sure. I mean, I don't want to generalize, but...

Yeah, I have to say, though, I consider myself, like, very grounded, as confident as I can get dating in my thirties as a single woman. And sometimes when I go to LA., I do feel a bit, like, inadequate because I'm not leaning in to...

Like, there's a look. I can see that, especially in downtown LA., that this is a bit more different. But downtown LA., all the girls have kind of like the same pouty lips, all have boobs, mine never kind of grew in.

And everyone kind of looks the same. And I feel like really like a fish out of water. And I don't know if that's something that I have to work on to just be.

Because when you feel that it doesn't stick, like I fell for Miranda in this episode, and I'm like, it's not happening. It can be quite rattling.

What do you think that can be done maybe when you are on holiday, maybe looking to have a little fling, and you feel like who you are doesn't cut it?

And first of all, I think that's about somebody's interior. And like you just shared about yourself, I don't think that's reality. You don't want to go out and feel that way.

And I think Miranda is looking in the wrong place. You're not going to meet somebody fabulous in a bar. You're not going to meet somebody fabulous dancing in a club.

You're not going to meet somebody fabulous kind of drunk. And I think when you are trying to really meet somebody of substance, you have to put yourself in an environment where that is. And that does exist in LA.

And there are men that are pretty fabulous and sophisticated and want the whole package. But a guy who just wants you to be hot, I kind of run.

But I felt for Miranda too because I think that's a personal view that she's really bright and she's adorable, I would imagine, to some people. But she's got to find her peeps, you know? She's got to do it differently.

Yeah, I agree.

Not downtown.

I think you mean like Hollywood or West Hollywood. Because downtown, there's not a lot of anything going on, but a lot of homeless.

I just remember going to some fashion event once in downtown LA. Yeah, I could go to district.

That is true.

Yeah. And I thought I was dressed fabulously and I got chat for days and I could not find my audience. So I was just like, Oh my God.

No, no, no, no, no. Yeah.

How long were you in LA when that happened?

Probably a week. I always tend to do like five days or so in LA a year at least. That was pretty early.

Do you like LA?

Do I like?

I love LA. I'm a closeted LA lover. I love to take the piss out of how people get excited about the hikes, that I love an LA hike.

I love the smoothie after running. It's, I love it.

We take that for granted. I love London. It's one of my favorite places.

I love London too.

Here the hikes are like less a thing, but we walk along.

It's stereotypical, right? You're on the beach, you're hiking, you're getting your smoothie, you're obsessively working out, going to class to class to class.

But I think some of that becomes obsessive because you're trying to get OK with something inside of yourself. Somewhere along the way, you have to surrender and accept yourself. But therapy is purposeful in that moment.

For me, the biggest conundrum about LA is that like, it's so in nature, most of the city, and like everybody's obsessed with mental health and wellness, but there is like a big disconnect.

And I don't know how that is. I don't know if it's the hustle of the city, that like everybody's trying to like win an impossible raise that you're kind of like not really tune in.

But like, I'm always like, guys, like everybody's so nice, especially because I tend to do LA after New York. And I'm like, everybody's so nice. Everybody's so relaxed.

Everybody's pleasant. And like everybody's very much about like, oh, matcha, meditation, yoga, a hike, nature, beach.

But no. Everybody on some level is trying to escape their pain. And I believe that being in therapy, for instance, the healthiest people are in therapy, right?

People that are a bit avoidant, see life coaches that are not trained and they're trying to give you, you know, quickie fixes and we have trouble with that.

But, you know, if you get comfortable with yourself and you're willing to examine how you feel about yourself and you're learning to think about yourself and you want to get really comfortable, there are ways.

And yes, the wellness community and, you know, plastic surgery and all that, that's here. But I believe that's everywhere. But if you really want to do the work, you have to drop in and do the work.

And really believe what getting comfortable with yourself is. It's not outside of us, it's inside of us. It's an inside job, as I'm sure you've heard that as well.

Yeah.

And there's no shortcuts.

Nope. There are no shortcuts. Right?

It's like the show, it lasts for a second. Yeah. And then Carrie's back to big.

Yeah.

And speaking of Carrie, in the same room, she's meeting with a junior executive. And this is one of my favorite cameos with Sarah Michelle Geller who is very aggressive, very intense, and she's trying to tell her to get excited.

This could be chick flick, opening weekend, massive weekend. And I have a star who is interested. And she mentions that it's Matthew McConaughey.

I'm very curious, is it like that, that you get the junior executive agent is like, we go, go, go. And I'm going to throw like star names and big things at you to wow you, especially when you're from out of town.

I mean, I think, again, that's the rapping and it's exciting and, oh my God, it's going to be incredible and it's going to be fun and you're going to be, but it's still her kind of laying out her life into a story that's manifested in Hollywood, in a

deal. And I don't know that she's really accepting that and facing that. And again, that's the pain that she really feels underneath it all. You know, at the end of every episode, she starts writing.

And I think it could be really exploitative too. But again, it's Sex and the City, so the whole manifestation of it is excitement and draw off and Matthew McConaughey, but her life becomes her story. She can't escape her past.

She can't escape her story. It's everywhere and that's who she is. So if she really is out here not escaping, she would be curious and have a different perspective about her experience in her life, but that would probably be boring for the show.

Yeah, I guess so.

Back in New York, we have Charlotte and Trey, and Charlotte tries to initiate sex with Trey and he dismisses her. Charlotte tries to call him out and be like, we have a problem and Trey is just like nothing, and he's in absolute denial.

I actually thought watching, I was like, maybe he's just not sexual. Do you think that sometimes can tie in with what you were mentioning about him having massive mommy issues, that they are not that used to be in that sexual?

I mean, you don't want to sleep with your mother, right? So the idea is, how does he find any sexuality inside of himself when he hasn't grown up yet?

And she's kind of in this illusion that he's this gentle soul, and he's so lovely and mellow and the MacDougalls, and what she married into. And he has no idea what that part of his sexuality is, and he's kind of offline in a way.

And I think she's just afraid to deal with it, right? Because she feels rejected. Oh my God, did I meet the wrong person?

And it's terrible. I think that's why he goes to porn, right? Porn is a non-exposing, non-relational way to get off, and there's nothing intimate about it.

So she's so confused about it, but he can't be intimate. You can't be intimate when you're in a relationship solely with your mother.

Yeah.

That makes sense?

So interesting. It does make sense. And I love that you brought in the porn aspect of it, because obviously, I guess that also ties in with the fact that his impotence is not physical.

But it does also prove desire and sexuality.

Meaning, say more about that with porn, about him.

Just because I think it's in the next episode that I think he is like pleasuring himself to a magazine of jugs. And he actually tells the therapist, like, it's not about sex. It's about tension release.

And I, like, maybe I can draw a question here of like, can pleasuring yourself take sexuality out of it and be just something that our bodies need? Yes.

Yeah. I mean, I think a good orgasm releases a lot of tension, but that's not what it is for him. His tension is about his mother.

His tension is about this really unhealthy relationship with his mother who controls everything, right? She sits with him in the bathtub. I mean, she's fixing everything.

She's overbearing. She's a, she's, she's yucky. A lot.

She's, yeah. But I think that's where he blows off steam and he doesn't feel so broken. And with Charlotte, he's just completely in denial and disconnected, and he's living in that fantasy as well.

That everything's fine, but it's not. And she knows it, but she can't deal with herself either. So, right, if she was in therapy with me, we'd have to start to deal with that she feels rejected and heartbroken and terrified.

Do you think that in a way Charlotte was looking to be fathered by Trey?

Because there's something very childish also about her going so blindly into this marriage and the way that she deals but really doesn't deal with the problems.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know about that, but I think she was trying to meet somebody, how she's so put together and she doesn't really break her happy smiley affect or presence. And I think she met Trey and it mirrored who she thinks she is.

I don't know what that's about. I can't really remember what her family life is like, but I don't know if it's bothering, but I think it's a mirror of having the perfect life and the perfect picture. And boy, oh boy, is it not perfect, right?

No.

Sad.

It's sad. I like her. So it breaks my heart.

I mean, he makes me sad that he's so unaware.

So unaware.

So unaware.

To see Charlotte throw herself at him and be like, whoopsies. Yeah, we do have a problem. We have two silver trays and we only registered for one.

Yeah.

When she measured his penis and when he was sleeping, that's the idea that his body's working unconsciously. That's actually a real thing and that is a way, I mean, not with the ribbon, it's a little bit more intensive when it's dealt with medically.

But there's a name for that and that's called nocturnal penile tumescence.

Tumescence means erection?

Yes. So it's nocturnal penile, the penis, tumescence. What's happening there?

Is it really working? It's really working when he's asleep, but it's not working when he's alive.

So this was another question from me to you. How valid is that trick of putting the seal of stamps around?

I mean, it's completely valid, but she's like going crazy because why is it working when he's sleeping? It works. So how do I fix this?

It's got to be medical. It's got to be. And then she like freaks out and spins out into trying to solve everything.

And he likes that because it keeps them away from his feelings. And his mommy, she fixes everything anyway.

Yeah.

But it's sad. But she's so checked out because she doesn't really want to learn about what's really happening. She knows it kind of in the back of her mind.

But yeah, because she knows it's not going to be an easy solution.

But I'm very curious then because she's very happy at the beginning. She's like, okay, my husband is not impotent physically. And then she kind of spirals.

Do you think that she was right to get even more scared when she was like, okay, it is emotional? Do you think that that was her maybe thinking like, okay, this is not an easy fix?

Yeah, I think that's part of what was going on, right? Because in the show they broke up. So when she realized, but she knew Bunny was a problem.

I mean, she started to learn about this and she, right? She hated her. She had a lot of drama together.

So again, I think she knew, but she didn't want to face it. And the evolution of the show is they broke up. So she faced it somehow.

Yeah.

Okay. And then Carrie is finally meeting with Matthew in the Warner Brothers studios.

I actually have a fun fact that apparently Matthew was being Matthew McConaughey and he was like doing spitballing, improv-ing and he jumped on the coffee table and broke it. In one of the takes. He has a lot of questions about Carrie and Mr.

Big. He thinks that Mr. Big is the coolest guy ever.

And he confronts Carrie and is like, I just don't get it. Why couldn't they make it work? And Carrie's voiceover is like, I've been asking myself the same question since we broke up the first time around probably.

So my question to you is, do you think that sometimes we can move on without having those answers when it's such a big relationship?

You know, most of the time when we can't get over somebody, they, and I understand, right? She was in love with him and he, her, I suppose, but there was no resolution in it because he has so many intimacy issues.

But we really never get over somebody until we understand what is it about them that we are lacking in ourselves.

So a lot of times we're drawn to what somebody makes us feel like, or they have something we want that we haven't developed in ourselves yet. So it becomes this idealization or this idolization about the other person.

And it's really painful until you recognize that. And then you start developing that in yourself, and then it's easier to let go. So he made her feel amazing.

And I don't know what he felt. I think he was crazy about her, but obviously he had a lot of women. So he clearly was probably, and my mind is sex addict, but he had intimacy issues too.

He cheated. And right in the end of the show, when they got married, he bailed on her. Like, terrified of connection, kind of like Trey, but a completely different polarity.

Like, he was able to have sex, and he went in the other direction, but he could have intimacy either. So it was really messed up.

Do you really think he made her feel amazing because of how bad he made her feel? Like, is it the roller coaster? Or do you think she generally...

Okay.

There clearly is something in her life that she keeps kind of reenacting and going towards the familiar. But I think she couldn't deal with the rejection.

So like most people, you keep chasing after that to try to fix it so you don't have to feel the pain. And then when they did have sex or they were together, right?

The high, the low, the high, the low, like, right, adrenaline, acrytosin, you know, it's the feel-good drug, right?

Sex is the feel-good drug.

Affairs and lust are the feel-good drug. The problem is, is you have to deal with reality again when that happens. So she kept getting hurt and then she kept believing him and then she kept getting hurt and then she kept believing him.

And, you know, it's a great high, but the lows are low. And she couldn't deal with that. So, okay.

Very sad.

But not so sad when the girls are at the Dildo launch. And Samantha is super excited because she is a fish in the water in this context.

And then Carrie is just like, I just want to go home. I want to wash away all the Matthew McConaughey out of me and like the production and everything. And I want to go.

And Miranda opens up to Carrie in this. It looks like a Comic Con for porn. And she's just saying like, I don't understand.

I was having this great conversation with this guy. And then he completely blew me off when he saw this hottie. And like, look at that woman.

She is just like sex out there. I wish I could be a bit more like that and not kind of like the smart witty lawyer Miranda that I am. I love that they ask her like, are you in the porn industry?

And the woman replies saying like, oh gosh, no, I'm a lawyer for Disney. But I'm very curious because they draw the comparison that sex tends to be this like lower shelf in a paperback thing in New York and in LA is out there.

Do you think that this is true? Because from a European perspective, I always feel that sex is very paperback, lower shelf, hide it away in the US versus Europe.

I think that's true. You know, I think in Europe, there's an experience and a feeling of letting go more and being more authentic to yourself. And I think in LA, sex sells, right?

The porn industry is pretty much out here. All these sex stores. I just heard the other day that a lot of these sex stores have these arcades in them and men go in there, I suppose, women.

And they do their business in these little rooms. They watch porn and it's 24 hours a day.

Why wouldn't you do it at home?

I guess sometimes you can't, I suppose. Or there's people like engaging and you can be a voyeur and watch. And I think that's like this bleasiness of LA, really.

You know, New York doesn't feel that way. And in Europe, it feels more elegant and more sophisticated and more about real feelings. LA sometimes is gross, I think.

So I think Europe is a much more sophisticated experience of desire and even drinking and sex and fashion and right now is CUNN in France. And there's just an elegance to it. I mean, LA, certainly we have parts of events in areas that can be elegant.

But it's the fantasy place. And I think it's different. I do.

And affairs are more a common place in Europe, right? Out here, the idea of open relationships or sexuality or desire, right? It's a taboo.

And then there's the porn industry and people are acting out all over the place. In Europe, there's a little bit more acceptance of openness or sexual play or what happens when people have affairs. I'm not saying people don't get upset.

But it's just a little bit, I think, more expansive in Europe.

That is so interesting because I think, I feel like the US is quite ahead of us in the terms, the vocabulary and how to communicate about polyamory, open relationships, ethical non-monogamy. I had never heard about that until an American told me.

And yesterday I was speaking to somebody French who was telling me that they were discussing about opening their relationship. But he was like, I'm French, like we don't talk about it.

Like as long as I don't make my partner look bad or embarrass her, like why do we need to say who I was, what I'm going to do? Like, no, no, no. So I don't know to what extent the information labeling helps or doesn't help.

I mean, I have to be honest with you.

I think it's a manifestation of unhealthiness. I certainly have counseled couples that want to have open relationships, but I'm sure I'll get a lot of slack from this, but I don't believe polyamory works.

If you're in a relationship and you want to open it up, I think you have to be highly, highly, highly sophisticated and have done a lot of couples work and a lot of individual work. But our nature is to attach.

So if you're bringing a third into a couple or you're open, unless you're single and that's just how you want to live your life, that 100% I think is a personal choice.

But if you're in a relationship and you're going to have an open relationship, I do not see that it works very well. People get jealous. There's attachment.

Who wants to watch their partner have sex with somebody else? I don't think there's a reality to it. But again, it's kind of like the wellness community, right?

There's all these fake wellness providers and longevity doctors and all this stuff that everybody takes. And it's not based on science. And I feel that sex is similar out here, polyamory and sex parties.

And it's casual. And I don't know that ultimately it's what people are really wanting. I think it's a man.

It's kind of like porn. It's a manifestation of something that's not being addressed inside.

Yeah. To be interesting. I mean, I'm very...

Because a lot of shit for saying that, but...

I've been on this mic saying that I can't do it.

I'm not that evolved, but hey.

But after this, the episode kind of wraps up with Carrie having an epiphany by the pool saying that maybe she needed to be alone. That was her realization from escaping all her problems.

And then Miranda is with the girls at this dive bar with a mechanical pool. And she goes onto the mechanical pool and she kind of like becomes somebody else and like, let's go and has a great time. So maybe we can jump into the advice to the girls.

And starting maybe with Miranda, this is one of my favorite questions. Because like, what is the difference watching her in the mechanical bowl that even like, I think Samantha and Carrie are not judging her.

They're like, oh my God, she's having a great time. But it's obviously very unlike her. What is the difference between stepping out of your comfort zone and pretending to be someone else for the male gaze?

I think that the truth is if you could do it alone at home and that's who you really are, then you're kind of in truth.

There is no way that Miranda would have done this in the privacy of her own home.

So I feel sad for her because it was performative and she was completely disconnected with herself and she was trying so hard to stretch herself and be that free spirit and be sexy and be what the men wanted her to be and ride the bull.

But I don't think that was really who she really is at all. Yeah. SATC, kind of, you know.

Interesting.

Okay. What about Carrie? We've talked plenty about the difference between scaping problems and perspective.

But how do you think maybe she could have handled because she drives away, she doesn't want to take the second meeting with Matthew McConaughey because she's like, I don't want people telling me all the mistakes that I've made.

I want to figure it out myself. Do you think that she could have actually used this process to get some closure or did she make the right call?

No, I think she wanted to get closure finally. I mean, one thing about Carrie is I think she has depth to her. And she started to, even though she was escaping, there's always this thing we call this observing ego in the show.

And she's always kind of having a battle between these two parts of herself. So, right, true growth is about becoming curious and tolerating discomfort.

And I think she started to realize that, that that was important and that was where she was going because it wasn't working, what was happening. And she couldn't get away from her truths.

And she came home to New York having had this adventure, but she still was faced with the reality.

Yeah.

So to grow, you have to be willing to be uncomfortable. And when you're not uncomfortable, you're not growing, you're avoiding. And that's the battle I think she's always had.

Yeah.

Okay. What about Charlotte? How do you think she could have moved on better from the denial of, my husband can be impotent, he's gorgeous, and freaking out about him being just emotionally impotent?

I think she would have had to go deeper and deal with the rejection and the reality of what she married into and what was missing and she would have to feel the rejection.

And that would have been the only way she would have gotten out of this. But I can't remember in the show if that's what happened.

But she's a bright light and she just tried to fix it and stay in the avoidance, because I think it was unbearable to her. And she was in this mess, right? I mean, compare to like who she ultimately married.

I can't remember his name. Like he was awesome. He was real.

He was raw. Carrie. I love her.

He was like a real deal, you know? Sexy in his own kind of an attractive way. But he was raw and he adored her and he was messy and they were messy together.

And I think she got a kick out of him. Trey was like vanilla ice cream.

Totally. Do you think that you can fix that without bringing Bunny into kind of like the first line of offense and like making her part of the conversation?

No, I think Trey would have had to gotten to this place on his own and then started to individuate in the relationship and we say unenmesh from the mother and become, start to kind of lay down boundaries so he can be a husband and have an adult

relationship. Bunny would never have allowed that. She would have inflicted criticism and guilt on him. And then like you see that like a controlling mother who ruins their son's relationships.

And the son shows up with kind of a, you started to talk about at the beginning like the Madonna horror complex, right? The horror is who they sleep with. But so Madonna, right?

The mother, right? They either marry somebody like their mother and their relationship is kind of that, like a reenactment, right? You married your mother and then they have the horror on the side where they can act out.

But the idea is you don't want that. You want everything when you marry somebody. I mean, a little bit of everything.

Can't have everything. But no, he, Bunny would have had to just, he would have probably had to cut her off for a while. And then she probably would have threatened him and cut him off and no more money and it would have been a mess, right?

That's the kind of stuff we see.

Okay. And finally, for Samantha, she kind of has this fling with Mr. Dildo Man, but at some point he tries to show her more that he has more to him than just a massive penis.

He does poetry, he offers moving to New York to explore that and continue exploring what it is with Samantha. And she's like picturing being seen with him at the Met Gala. And she's like, hell no.

I'm very curious what you make of this, because at the end of the day, Samantha is portrayed to the audience as all sex. So I would have never thought that she would care about that. What do you think of soin on there?

Guess what?

We're finding out that Samantha has a shadow part of herself that she's ashamed of. That in private she's sexually liberated and she's naughty and she's expansive and she's fabulous and sex, sex, sex.

That's not true because the embarrassment at the Met Gala with Mr. Dildo is really not about him.

It's about her, that there's a part of herself that actually isn't okay with it and she's afraid that she's not gonna get the respect that she really wants. So we find out that there's a part of her that is not as liberated as she pretends to be.

Yeah, great advice, Dr. Richman. Thank you so much.

Yeah, thank you.

This was so fun.

That was the episode. Thank you so much. I would love for you to tell our listeners where they can find you because honestly, this has been such a fun session.

I'm so glad.

I'm in LA, kind of on the brink of LA and Beverly Hills, and you can find me on my website, richmancare.com. You can find me on Instagram at Dr. Melissa Richman.

That's it.

I'll plug it all in the show notes as well. Thank you so much, Dr. Richman.

I hope to see you again soon.

Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks so much.

Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of And Just Like That We Found Therapy. If you loved it, follow the podcast, leave a five-star review and send this episode to somebody who needs it. It really helps the show.

Don't forget about our new segment this season, He's Not Your Mr. Big. If you have a love dilemma you want answered by one of our in-house experts, you can now submit directly through the form of my website.

The link is in the show notes. Or if you prefer to keep it personal, slide into my DMs on Instagram at wefoundtherapypod. See you at our next therapy session.

I love y'all, bye.